Republicans need to let the Democrats sleep in (1 Viewer)

[supermike80]

As a centrist republican,  I can see and taste the fear in the democratic party.    Why is this?

1. Dems have done nothing to address the biggest issues facing this country.  Inflation. Immigration, and covid.  All they keep doing is asking everyone what they should do.  Instead of doing it.  

2.  Their solution is to throw more and more money at the problem.  It isn't working

3. They are failing to corral the party around anything at all.  And when one part of the dem party doesn't get what they want, they are way too vocal about it. No party loyalty at all.

Republicans don't need to do much.  Let the dems continue to obsess about things the average American isn't too concerned about and ignore the big ones.  

 

[timschochet]

Republicans don't need to do much. 

That’s good because they don’t. Over the last 20 years or so, the entire Republican platform could be written in 3 words: oppose the Libs. (Not that this hasn’t worked, and is continuing to work, to a large extent.) 

Oh and immigration is not one of the key 3 issues Americans are concerned with, never has been. Conservatives make too much of that. 

 

[supermike80]

That’s good because they don’t. Over the last 20 years or so, the entire Republican platform could be written in 3 words: oppose the Libs. (Not that this hasn’t worked, and is continuing to work, to a large extent.) 

Oh and immigration is not one of the key 3 issues Americans are concerned with, never has been. Conservatives make too much of that. 

Better at politics.  Period. Do what works. Opposing libs is a good strategy for a reason

 

[Herb]

I'll take a swing at this as a left-leaning non-democrat:

1. I'll give you immigration.  Huge mess. The rest, they've done plenty about, with varying degrees of success. I mean, the Covid response has been pretty excellent from the administration,  they can't help that receiving a vaccination somehow got turned into a political football. 

2. I think (?) this is winding down. And let's not pretend Republicans don't love to throw money around when given a chance. I remember some decent size checks coming my way during the Trump administration. 

3. This has been the party's MO for decades. It's the reason I'm not one. The party is a monster, corrupt and disorganized. That said, how much loyalty do you really want people feeling toward a party, as opposed to the country? That's a huge failing with the GOP, IMO. 

 

[Insein]

As a centrist republican,  I can see and taste the fear in the democratic party.    Why is this?

1. Dems have done nothing to address the biggest issues facing this country.  Inflation. Immigration, and covid.  All they keep doing is asking everyone what they should do.  Instead of doing it.  

2.  Their solution is to throw more and more money at the problem.  It isn't working

3. They are failing to corral the party around anything at all.  And when one part of the dem party doesn't get what they want, they are way too vocal about it. No party loyalty at all.

Republicans don't need to do much.  Let the dems continue to obsess about things the average American isn't too concerned about and ignore the big ones.  

Doing nothing is not a solution. That's how we get Mitch McConnell as the majority leader. What's that going to accomplish? He's the other side of the same coin with Pelosi. 

 

[Insein]

That’s good because they don’t. Over the last 20 years or so, the entire Republican platform could be written in 3 words: oppose the Libs. (Not that this hasn’t worked, and is continuing to work, to a large extent.) 

Oh and immigration is not one of the key 3 issues Americans are concerned with, never has been. Conservatives make too much of that. 

I agree with your first point. 

Second point I disagree. When Americans are having their rights threatened to be stripped away from them if they don't comply with federal mandates on Covid but they see a flood of illegal immigrants being allowed to flow into the country unopposed without even having to be tested for Covid, people get pissed off. It will be a big issue. 

 

[timschochet]

Doing nothing is not a solution. That's how we get Mitch McConnell as the majority leader. Whats that going to accomplish? 

Not that I like it, but the clear answer is: wins. 

 

[timschochet]

I agree with your first point. 

Second point I disagree. When Americans are having their rights threatened to be stripped away from them if they don't comply with federal mandates on Covid but they see a flood of illegal immigrants being allowed to flow into the country unopposed without even having to be tested for Covid, people get pissed off. It will be a big issue. 

I don’t want to argue the issue of illegal immigration; I’ve done that plenty. I’m sure you know we disagree. 
But my point here isn’t about that, it’s about how the public feels about it. And every poll over the last two decades says the same thing: about 40% of this country are conservatives, and they care about illegal immigration a great deal in a negative way. About 10% of this country are Hispanic progressives, and THEY care about illegal immigration a great deal in a positive way. 

The remaining 50% of the nation doesn’t really give a crap about this issue one way or another. 

 

[MAC_32]

Doing nothing is not a solution. That's how we get Mitch McConnell as the majority leader. What's that going to accomplish? He's the other side of the same coin with Pelosi. 

That's the objective.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I mean, the Covid response has been pretty excellent from the administration,

What?

The covid response from Biden is get vaccinated, get vaccinated, and get vaccinated as many times as we tell you to. 

Also here is some money. 

That's it. They are terrible at this. 

I don't have a problem with advocating for vaccines(just got booster yesterday), but that can't be the only arrow in your quiver. 

 

[MAC_32]

What?

The covid response from Biden is get vaccinated, get vaccinated, and get vaccinated as many times as we tell you to. 

Also here is some money. 

That's it. They are terrible at this. 

I don't have a problem with advocating for vaccines(just got booster yesterday), but that can't be the only arrow in your quiver. 

Yes it can. This isn't hard.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Yes it can. This isn't hard.

I agree it isn't hard. 

I don't think a new common sense approach would be tough at all. Or we can just keep doing what we are doing. 

 

[GoBirds]

They have the perfect “leader” for sleeping in so things are looking up for us non Libs. 

 

[MAC_32]

I agree it isn't hard. 

I don't think a new common sense approach would be tough at all. Or we can just keep doing what we are doing. 

I think it would be equally as unsuccessful as the current message. Only way to get through to (some of) those that are still resistant, and have been, is for them to get it and suffer. Decisions have consequences. 

 

[GoBirds]

What?

The covid response from Biden is get vaccinated, get vaccinated, and get vaccinated as many times as we tell you to. 

Also here is some money. 

That's it. They are terrible at this. 

I don't have a problem with advocating for vaccines(just got booster yesterday), but that can't be the only arrow in your quiver. 

Agreed. He’s done a horrible job of leadership and there’s no scenario where the death toll with a vaccine should exceed the previous year without one and the pandemic came out of nowhere. If there could be a worse leader for this I can’t imagine and hope we never see it. I know, But Trump! Sadly the toll shows he was way better. 

 

[rockaction]

I don't see the Republicans getting my vote back in the next twenty years. Americans aren't really that fed up with Democrats, per se, they're fed up with the status quo. Perhaps I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly, but having a democratic system is better than having an intellectual wing of one party that doesn't advocate for democracy anymore. That should be enough for your average voter to not vote Republican. 

 

[The General]

I don't see the Republicans getting my vote back in the next twenty years. Americans aren't really that fed up with Democrats, per se, they're fed up with the status quo. Perhaps I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly, but having a democratic system is better than having an intellectual wing of one party that doesn't advocate for democracy anymore. That should be enough for your average voter to not vote Republican. 

Walk off post. Close the thread down.

 

[rockaction]

And I see I make guys that I like and could come to agreement on many things with a bit sad. I'm not trying to be a hardliner, nor trying to vilify the enemy. I've been reading for about two years where the intellectual right is not keen on democracy, really. They're keen on an orthodox, hierarchical frame of government that is somewhat authoritarian. That's why I finally left the right. The Democrats have plenty of issues where they need to come back to earth, back to the center. That's really what I'm going to focus my energies on these days: convincing the left-leaning elements of the Democratic party to come back to the center. I'll do it through primaries and other things. If I find my relationship with voting Democrat untenable, I'll become strictly a third-party guy, likely big "L" Libertarian, which will also be painstaking in some ways. 

 

[rockaction]

Walk off post. Close the thread down.

And I was just hedging as you posted that. But I don't see how, absent a serious movement on the American right toward democratic norms, that I can vote Republican in good, democratic conscience. 

 

[dkp993]

I don't see the Republicans getting my vote back in the next twenty years. Americans aren't really that fed up with Democrats, per se, they're fed up with the status quo. Perhaps I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly, but having a democratic system is better than having an intellectual wing of one party that doesn't advocate for democracy anymore. That should be enough for your average voter to not vote Republican. 

I just feel so damn politically homeless.  While I completely agree with your assessment I also can’t support the wholly dysfunctional, disconnected and woke Democratic party as it stands today.  So if I can’t see any R’s getting my vote and can’t stomach the idea of any D’s getting it either where does that leave me (and those like me)?  Disillusioned is where. 

 

[fruity pebbles]

I don’t really care either way. Both parties are filled with individuals looking to increase their own net worth and power while caring very little about the country or the citizens they represent. Broken system filled with broken individuals so honestly I don’t see how it really matters. They’re all hanging out together after fake arguing all day. Basically backstage of the WWE. 

 

[rockaction]

I just feel so damn politically homeless.  While I completely agree with your assessment I also can’t support the wholly dysfunctional, disconnected and woke Democratic party as it stands today.  So if Ican’t see any R’s getting my vote and can’t stomach the idea of any D’s getting it either where does that leave me (and those like me)?  Disillusioned is where. 

I would focus my energies on beating the real enemy and danger, which is the threat to democracy in America from the right that preaches fidelity to men, not issues, and fights culture wars rather than leaving the private to the private sphere. I was just reading a great interview in the New Republic which pointed out that the New Right is a lot like the hard left in that they're materialists -- that they believe that the private sphere and economic arrangements affect the personal to such a degree that culture wars must be fought about every issue or economic or social plan or program. We're looking at a vastly different country if the ideas that are tying the right together come to pass. It's not pretty, in my estimation. 

 

[dkp993]

I would focus my energies on beating the real enemy and danger, which is the threat to democracy in America from the right that preaches fidelity to men, not issues, and fights culture wars rather than leaving the private to the private sphere. I was just reading a great interview in the New Republic which pointed out that the New Right is a lot like the hard left in that they're materialists -- that they believe that the private sphere and economic arrangements affect the personal to such a degree that culture wars must be fought about every issue or economic or social plan or program. We're looking at a vastly different country if the ideas that are tying the right together come to pass. It's not pretty, in my estimation. 

That’s an interesting viewpoint and something I’ve never considered.  Will need to chase that article down.  Thanks.  

 

[GoBirds]

I don’t really care either way. Both parties are filled with individuals looking to increase their own net worth and power while caring very little about the country or the citizens they represent. Broken system filled with broken individuals so honestly I don’t see how it really matters. They’re all hanging out together after fake arguing all day. Basically backstage of the WWE. 

I think you nailed it, none of these politicians care about us 1% of how they are looking out for themselves. I feel sorry for those that really buy their schtick. Look at the results and the impact on your daily life and fellow Americans, not the talking points and empty promises.  Great post. 

 

[LawFitz]

As a former center-left Democrat, who hasn't fundamentally changed much about where I stand along the political spectrum, I find myself now a very solidly right Libertarian... One who wants as minimal govt as reasonably possible, but hasn't seen a reduction in govt by either party in my lifetime.

To the contrary, the coalescence of central power over the last 15 years has been beyond alarming, first with the radical restructuring of our monetary and central banking system following 2007/8, and then with the even more radical restructuring of our rights and freedoms under Branch Brandon Covidianism in 2021.

No idea if the Republicans can steer us back to center, but as of right now, they most certainly feel less worse. Far less worse. Even Orange Man bad seems like a fond and distant dream compared to our new sharty pokey sniffy sleepy bumbly nightmare.

Poster upthread says he can't/won't vote Republican for another 20 yrs. Respect to his opinion and feeling there, but I feel the polar opposite and don't see myself voting Democrat again, ever. Dems have done SO much damage to themselves with this utter farce of a regime. It'll take a generation to recover, IMO.

 

[GordonGekko]

I don't see the Republicans getting my vote back in the next twenty years. Americans aren't really that fed up with Democrats, per se, they're fed up with the status quo. Perhaps I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly, but having a democratic system is better than having an intellectual wing of one party that doesn't advocate for democracy anymore. That should be enough for your average voter to not vote Republican. 

Consider anyone who joined the United States military in 2020 and has designs to spend a full 20 year career there or slightly a little more than that had to watch what happened in Afghanistan. ( We are talking FIVE full general voting cycles)

What incentive does that person have to vote for the Democratic Party? Americans were born and raised and soaked in the ideal of victory. Internally against other Americans on our soil that concept doesn't always hold, but against the rest of the entire world, it's what everyone has seen in movies and TV and our books and in our music and in nearly every aspect of our culture. This is why Vietnam was such a massive stain and an issue for shame for so many Americans at the time and place, amongst other critical reasons.

What is the "degree of separation" i.e. the Kevin Bacon Scenario to a US military service member? How many Americans were once part of the military? How many have family in the military even if they didn't serve themselves? How many are married or were married to servicemen? This also extends to law enforcement. Defund The Police and the widespread pattern of attack against civilian law enforcement in this country is moving from only one clear direction. How many of them are apt to vote for the Democratic Party? Maybe some did before, but will they now?

The establishment Democrats have held onto the LGBT vote. They'll hold zealots and single issue voters. They've lost ground nearly everywhere else. And if they don't lose to the GOP, they risk threats in the primaries from AOC and her merry band of Progressives. It's a two front war that Obama and Pelosi self inflicted with their catastrophic handling of Sanders and The Squad.

Suburban women. Hispanic/Latinos. Asians. Small business owners and their families. And the now enraged growing juggernaut that is poor white rural Christian America. The list goes on and on.

2022 Mid Terms will be a blood bath. The 2024 general cycle is one where Team Blue would need a Music City Miracle to find a way to pull that one out.

The "average voter" will

1) Vote Republican because they are part of the cross section that is Conservative and/or Republican

or

2) Vote against this disaster zone of an administration, which means in a "First Past The Post" system, they will be voting for the GOP by default

or

3) Just not vote at all ( But that number from the side of the Democratic Party will swell. Even if some hate the GOP,  many won't be able to abide by the woke insanity of the left and will just abstain out of disgust)

The Obama/Biden/Harris/Rice regime makes America look like a bunch of losers. It makes a lot of Americans feel like losers. And Susan Rice, who has shadow run this country into the ground, is forcing Jen Psaki to go out there and say day after day that the real problem is that Americans are too stupid to see what is really going on. Or that they are too unenlightened to really understand what's important. Or imply that they aren't pure enough.

Here is one of the major rules of effective media optics -

YOU CAN'T KEEP TELLING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY ARE SEEING WITH THEIR OWN TWO EYES.

Establishment Democrats are doing so and are refusing to take any other approach. It's arrogant, it's tone deaf, it's smug, it's condescending, it tells people they are serfs in a new age feudal system, it says the average person should be thankful that their children are nothing more than cannon fodder.

Some people hate the GOP ( you seem to align in this range), but most of the moderates, independents and undecideds will vote in line with what looks like the best chance for their children to have some kind of functional future. In the NFL, you just need one more point on the board than the other team to win as time expires. You seem to be stuck in this loop that since the score won't be 100-0, that it means the team that is clearly outgunned still has some kind of chance. Do you think most moderates, independents and undecideds are going to line up with your stance? Let me spoil the end of the movie for you, they won't.

Your theoretical assessment doesn't account for the reality that people love their children and want their children to be safe more than they will hold onto some personal political ideology.

 

[rockaction]

I don't disagree with a good deal of Gekko's points. In fact, I agree with many of them. So what, exactly, one may wonder, is that dude doing voting for failure?

My alarm bells are rung by the intellectual right. They alone are speaking for themselves and where their movement takes them. Right now, it's an "integralism" of Catholic doctrine and monarchy. It's ugly, and a disaster of a philosophy for a democratic nation to embrace. From Claremont to First Things, they've fired the shots for autocracy, theocracy, and for the body politic to be a non-representative government, up to and including using the formerly anathema administrative state to do the dealings that the left got done in the forties and fifties. They will outright admit that they are "post-liberal," which is their buzz term for "not democratic." They do not believe that their Catholicism and religion can co-exist in the public square with liberalism. These are not unfounded claims. They are spoken in their magazines and in their institutes. First Things publishes articles by men who justify the burning of Protestants at the stake, politically. Claremont backs Trump to the point of having intellectuals defend non-representation and monarchy. 

It is here where I must split with the right. I am a democrat. That Republicans are no longer republican is the greatest loss to our nation since the Civil War, but we now have a GOP that is determined to curtail voting rights, to curtail representative government itself. The big money on the New Right follows the Catholics and the post-liberals. They use "neoliberal" as a smear, much like the progressives did and do, only their smear comes from theocracy and/or a fascistic populism which knows where its energies are to lie. They are statists, safety net aficionados, and not free marketers. 

Your theoretical assessment doesn't account for the reality that people love their children and want their children to be safe more than they will hold onto some personal political ideology.

My "theoretical assessment" is their words. You can look it up. Or I will cite it. This, Gekko, is what you call high-value posting. This is no low-information ####. 

Here you go: 

Theoretically sound blogger assesses the New Right, with encouraged citations at the end of his article 

https://scholars-stage.org/the-problem-of-the-new-right/

The New Republic, obviously a left-leaning magazine, discusses the movement

https://newrepublic.com/article/164643/illiberal-upstarts-reinvent-conservatism

https://newrepublic.com/article/164408/young-intellectuals-illiberal-revolution-conservatism

Catholic debate over liberalism, from the City Journal, by a Washington Examiner author

https://www.city-journal.org/catholic-debate-over-liberalism

From Tablet, a survey of the New Right 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-new-millennial-american-right

 

[Stealthycat]

what I see is the Democrats scared out of their minds of Trump 2024 - they know if he runs he will win, they won't be able to stop him. Democrats promised to end covid, bring us all together in unity, lead with honor and trust and they've failed at just about every level. The ratings show that and its not even been 1 year yet 

 

[Summer Wheat]

That’s good because they don’t. Over the last 20 years or so, the entire Republican platform could be written in 3 words: oppose the Libs. (Not that this hasn’t worked, and is continuing to work, to a large extent.) 

Oh and immigration is not one of the key 3 issues Americans are concerned with, never has been. Conservatives make too much of that. 

But it reminds me of my wife, she might have 20 ideas but only 2-3 make sense so I oppose her other ones.

 

[lazyike]

I'll take a swing at this as a left-leaning non-democrat:

1. I'll give you immigration.  Huge mess. The rest, they've done plenty about, with varying degrees of success. I mean, the Covid response has been pretty excellent from the administration,  they can't help that receiving a vaccination somehow got turned into a political football. 

2. I think (?) this is winding down. And let's not pretend Republicans don't love to throw money around when given a chance. I remember some decent size checks coming my way during the Trump administration. 

3. This has been the party's MO for decades. It's the reason I'm not one. The party is a monster, corrupt and disorganized. That said, how much loyalty do you really want people feeling toward a party, as opposed to the country? That's a huge failing with the GOP, IMO. 

Yes I have been farming for over 40 years and the most USDA money I ever received in one year was 2020 under the Trump Administration. Like Sen Sasse said of Trump...he spends money like a drunken sailor. And what is even worse Republicans subsidize and increase defense spending and then not only don't raise taxes to pay for it they want to lower them further. 

 

[roadkill1292]

I don't disagree with a good deal of Gekko's points. In fact, I agree with many of them. So what, exactly, one may wonder, is that dude doing voting for failure?

My alarm bells are rung by the intellectual right. They alone are speaking for themselves and where their movement takes them. Right now, it's an "integralism" of Catholic doctrine and monarchy. It's ugly, and a disaster of a philosophy for a democratic nation to embrace. From Claremont to First Things, they've fired the shots for autocracy, theocracy, and for the body politic to be a non-representative government, up to and including using the formerly anathema administrative state to do the dealings that the left got done in the forties and fifties. They will outright admit that they are "post-liberal," which is their buzz term for "not democratic." They do not believe that their Catholicism and religion can co-exist in the public square with liberalism. These are not unfounded claims. They are spoken in their magazines and in their institutes. First Things publishes articles by men who justify the burning of Protestants at the stake, politically. Claremont backs Trump to the point of having intellectuals defend non-representation and monarchy. 

It is here where I must split with the right. I am a democrat. That Republicans are no longer republican is the greatest loss to our nation since the Civil War, but we now have a GOP that is determined to curtail voting rights, to curtail representative government itself. The big money on the New Right follows the Catholics and the post-liberals. They use "neoliberal" as a smear, much like the progressives did and do, only their smear comes from theocracy and/or a fascistic populism which knows where its energies are to lie. They are statists, safety net aficionados, and not free marketers. 

My "theoretical assessment" is their words. You can look it up. Or I will cite it. This, Gekko, is what you call high-value posting. This is no low-information ####. 

Here you go: 

Theoretically sound blogger assesses the New Right, with encouraged citations at the end of his article 

https://scholars-stage.org/the-problem-of-the-new-right/

The New Republic, obviously a left-leaning magazine, discusses the movement

https://newrepublic.com/article/164643/illiberal-upstarts-reinvent-conservatism

https://newrepublic.com/article/164408/young-intellectuals-illiberal-revolution-conservatism

Catholic debate over liberalism, from the City Journal, by a Washington Examiner author

https://www.city-journal.org/catholic-debate-over-liberalism

From Tablet, a survey of the New Right 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-new-millennial-american-right

In my readings by the new intellectual right, most have concluded that the progressive left has decisively won the culture wars through the use of "superficial virtuous and compassionate language," as one wag put it. 

The further conclusion is that, since democracy has led to the wrong outcomes -- and was always destined to do so -- then democracy is a substandard system of governance and must be replaced by government that will rule with the common good always in mind. That common good is only achievable by strong enforcement of common values ( church, patriotism, family, etc).

This subject could be its own thread but I'm on a tablet right now and don't want to hunt and peck any more.

 

[rockaction]

In my readings by the new intellectual right, most have concluded that the progressive left has decisively won the culture wars through the use of "superficial virtuous and compassionate language," as one wag put it. 

The further conclusion is that, since democracy has led to the wrong outcomes -- and was always destined to do so -- then democracy is a substandard system of governance and must be replaced by government that will rule with the common good always in mind. That common good is only achievable by strong enforcement of common values ( church, patriotism, family, etc).

This subject could be its own thread but I'm on a tablet right now and don't want to hunt and peck any more.

It could be its own thread, but if I start and get even remotely theoretical about it, it's going to sink like a heavy stone to the bottom of the internet. 

I think there are different strains of the New Right, some more adamant about the culture war and some more theoretical than others. Some believe the culture war is still theirs to win despite obvious losses to the contrary. Some believe that liberal democracy's outcome was destined to be what we see now with the culture wars, more along the lines of what you're saying, and that the democratic project is therefore wrong. These people conclude that liberalization has necessarily led to a crowding out of religion from the public square, as if there were competing goods being sold and only one being bought. These are the "integralists," who believe that Catholicism and the common good is the only way for society to flourish appropriately and virtuously. 

It's a mish-mash. The old right, comprised of anti-communist Catholics, free marketers, and neoconservatives, has broken along new ideological lines after the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of the Wall St. economy, which left behind many of the Old Right adherents or rendered their temporary alliance obsolete. 

But they are not, largely, democratic, and most adopt the "post-liberal" moniker. That is the worrisome element of it all. They believe in incrementalism or wholesale ideological changes in our foundations of government, back to its theoretical underpinnings of Hobbes and Locke, philosophers they view as flawed and terrible building blocks upon which to build a society. Which is who we built it upon. 

Anyway, like any incoherent gasp, it has many strains with many competing premises. It's interesting, but worrisome.