Talk About Alcohol (1 Viewer)

[Joe Schmo]

8-10 beers nightly
Been this way on and off for 20 years
Often modelo negro or a porter/brown/amber to keep me away from the IPAs. 5.5%-6% abv is my go to.
I've put on a lot of fatty mass and over 25 ilbs in 2.5 years. I'm 57.

How is your sleep? I just couldn’t drink that much that often and get any sleep.

MY sleep is not great until Friday night when I can sleep in until 8:30-9:00. I work a second job tu, Wed, Fri and dont get home until 10:30 and on those nights I drink until 12:30 and Only have 6-7 beers. That's the hardest part of my sleep pattern.

 

[JohnnyU]

8-10 beers nightly
Been this way on and off for 20 years
Often modelo negro or a porter/brown/amber to keep me away from the IPAs. 5.5%-6% abv is my go to.
I've put on a lot of fatty mass and over 25 ilbs in 2.5 years. I'm 57.

Your body will start to have a conversation with you soon, if it hasn’t already, good luck.

 

[The_Man]

I used to have 3 or 4 IPAs every night

Now down to 2 - 1 after work, hanging out with my wife as we make dinner, 1 during and after dinner

On occasion I'll have a third, but have found it to be a diminishing return, don't usually want to drink the full 12 oz and I usually have to wake up at some point during the night to use the bathroom

Am I dependent? Probably. But I enjoy every aspect of the ritual, including the delicious taste of the brew and gradual unwinding at the end of the day. Am I addicted? Probably not, I've quit without much difficulty in the past for things like Dry January or Whole 30. But even if I am, I don't care. Consumption adds to the quality of my life and if 2 beers a night means I end up with a shorter life that I enjoy more than a longer life that I enjoy less, that's a trade I feel good about

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It's been quite a while since I've had "five drinks in a single sitting." I don't think nursing a whiskey while I watch the 4 pm games and following that up with another whiskey nursed after dinner is what they have in mind. I'm sure the total volume of alcohol consumption is probably what really matters from a health standpoint.

That's interesting. And maybe why it's best to view it in terms of drinks per week like we've been talking about.

I guess there is the being drunk part that makes it seem like 4 drinks in 2 hours is much worse than 4 drinks in 8 hours. But really, it's just better to think of it as an overall number in a week, regardless of whether one is drunk or not?

I think medically, it’s just what your body has to process. 3 shots in an hour, or 3 shots in 3 hours. Your body is still processing the same amount of booze. The first one gets you drunk. . Spitballing here.

 

[menobrown]

For those of you who acknowledge you need to cut down alcohol consumption, but haven’t thus far, what would it take to change your mind/compel you to action?

Blood tests saying I'm outside the normal range on a few key metrics and it's almost certainly because of alcohol consumption.

-this time last year

I’m not sure such metrics exist, at least unequivocally due to alcohol.

What did you have in mind - liver tests?

I rely on the blood work testing for liver enzyme levels and in answer to your question about what would it take to cut down that's pretty much it.

I used to drink a lot of whiskey, probably 4-6 a night on weeknights and some good heavy pours, a little more on weekends. Had my first full on physical at this time and my doc told me my enzymes were high and I made a drastic cut back immediately. But I did not quit, just moved over to trying to drink more red wine instead of whiskey and cutting it down to initially 2-3 before building it back up to the 3-4 range. That was right around 15 years ago when I was in my late 30's. Since then I get an annual physical and everytime the nurse calls me with my results she says the same thing "doc says whatever you are doing keep doing it".

If I get another bad blood test or anything my doc tells me that's not generic in nature but specific to my health saying it's causing issues I would cut back or even eliminate. Otherwise not seeing an issue or reason to, I'm not gaining weight, can't even remember the last time I was sick, low blood pressure, low resting heart rate,etc,etc. If/when those things change so would my drinking habits.

I applaud those who recognize an issue and cut back. My dad was an aclcholic and it wrecked havoc in his life and likely ultimatly cost him life and that still did not impact me like the 3 years I worked in a liquor store when I was trying to put myself through college. I used to refer to the drive through line as the "trail of tears", drinking like most of my customers did is no way to live life. Ideally alchohol should be a complement to life and the things you enjoy, not what your life is centered around.

 

[MAC_32]

Regardless, more than 14 drinks per week, or 5 in a single sitting, is considered heavy consumption, medically.

I've wondered about the "single sitting". That seems super vague. Wouldn't it be much better to speak of it in "dinks per hour" or something like that?

I "sitting" for me might be 45 minutes for a lunch, 2 hours for a Friday afternoon or 3 1/2 hours for a game.

Is there a more precise guideline there?

I think you mentioned monitoring your metrics earlier in the thread. I think that's the basis for any guidelines. What's your resting HR? body battery? stress? quantity and quality of sleep? Basically, was your body's functionality negatively impacted from alcohol intake?

i.e. friends of ours does a trivia night at a local pub every Thursday. I'd ball park ~4 drinks over ~2 hours (give or take) any time we go. When we went on 1/18 my body battery only bounced back to 67 over-night, my resting HR over night was 52 (usually mid 40's), and stress was a 32 (usually high 20's). But it was probably more influenced by only netting ~6.5 hours of sleep than anything I consumed that night. No day-after workout metrics to evaluate as it was in the middle of a winter storm, but I recall sitting on my couch thinking about going out anyway cause I had energy to burn. Now, if I did this every day that may not be a good thing, but once or twice per week? No issue as long as output aligns with this sample.

Compare that to a day after heavy drinking when my stress was 42, body battery only bounced back to 28, and resting HR was 62 despite almost 8 hours of sleep (but most of it was of the not good variety). I eventually got out for an ugly recovery run late afternoon in which both my pace was slower than normal and HR higher than normal. That's objectively not good for my body. Am I going to suffer dire consequences doing it every once in a while? Probably not, but I need to be more careful, especially as I get older. So maybe at next year's golf outing I'll either tap out after the awards dinner or if I'm not just postpone the first cocktail until the back nine.

 

[Brownsfan]

Was 14+ from 16 to 32. Haven't had a drink since April of 1995. Went to AA for years, off and on since.
Would not be here today if I hadn't stopped when I did.

 

[bro1ncos]

March 9th will be my 3 year sobriety date.

Never was an every day drinker, but once I started I didn't stop until I was blacked out. Started to get more frequent and stopped before I was dead or my actions resulted in tragic consequences.

Much better person and happier for it.

 

[Zow]

I have a question for the people that drink to relax after a difficult day. How does that work? I have tried that a couple of times and it doesn't relax me. I must be doing it wrong.

I probably average 1 drink a week for thr entire year, but they all happen on vacation, during the summer on the boat or at parties, or a special occasion.

The only other thing I noticed was my coordination was off.

But from the sound of some of these posts, many people only start to feel “good” after multiple drinks, with mild sedation when they stop before that point.

I'll speak to the bold because, again, my primary place of alcohol consumption is the golf course and one of the primary factors for my decision to imbibe is that I genuinely find that I play better with the right amount of alcohol in my system. For example, if I had to shoot a certain score or make a certain golf shot in order to save my kids' lives or some similarly extreme hypothetical, I legitimately would do so with alcohol in my system. While this sounds bizarre and seemingly unbelievable, I'd make the following points about it to try to best explain it:
1. Permission to relax - As mentioned previously in this thread, the golf course is pretty much my lone place where the natural life stressors (for me, mostly work) can be put aside for a few hours. For example, when I experience a particular work trauma (viewing highly sensitive materials, viewing a client attempt suicide, losing a big trial, etc.) or a personal trauma (e.g. when my son was placed back with his bio mother after two years with us), the golf course is where I go to clear my mind and, basically, stop thinking about these sorts of things. But, unlike something like a basketball game where there is really no downtime to be checking phone/email, golf does have reasonable chances to do so. So, to avoid my normal stress and temptation of checking my work phone, ingesting alcohol permits me to justify not doing so because I can't be doing my job while intoxicated and, bizarrely, it's somewhat socially and professionally acceptable to say, "hey, sorry I didn't respond to your emergent situation yesterday, I was on the golf course and had had some whisky." In short, that sip of whisky as I'm hitting balls on the range to warm up gives me my own personal permission to turn work and other aspects of life off which is good for one's mental health.
2. Golf, unlike much more physically demanding sports whereby stamina and pure strength are required, is much more of a game of precision and coordination. So, where I would never even dream of drinking while playing basketball, baseball, football, softball,* hockey or even tennis, it's certainly doable on the golf course.
3. Performance enhancing - Moving on to your point about coordination, my experience is that alcohol for certain coordination and precision type games such as golf, bowling, ping pong, billiards, darts, etc. there is a certain "sweet spot" where alcohol serves to relax the nerves but does not yet significantly impair fine motor function. I would note that there's some science backing this concept, as the National Hight and Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) testing of alcohol impairment's impacts on a person's ability to drive demonstrated that a person actually drives better between a .02 and .04 BAC (a couple of drinks for the average person). For me, the impact on my golf game is that sober I may be thinking things like "you weren't great on the range and lost a few to the right and there is ob right here" or "just ensure your par here" when, studies in sports psychology have shown that an "aim small, miss small" mindset and going for the shot usually works out better.
4. Pain management - As I've gotten into my 40s and more out of shape, I experience mild and occasional back pain and my joints and tendons get sorer sooner and easier. Alcohol, as a depressant, does help to manage some of this pain so that I'm still swinging full speed on hole 18.
5. Irrational confidence - "Beer muscles" or whatever you want to call it are a thing and, on the course, I can channel this directly (and, I think, healthily) into competing and truly having faith in myself that I can make that 275 yard carry shot or, essentially, beat anybody I'm matched against.

Now, of course, the above all notwithstanding I fully recognize that alcohol is basically poison and I'd probably be better off spending my free time doing a much more healthy activity like hiking, crossfit, etc. Also, I do recognize the downside that just keeps getting worse as I age in that the alcohol recovery does impact parts of my life such as having energy to play with my kids the next day (I'll usually drink/golf Saturday and spend time with my kids Sundays) or even just, if I drink/golf a few days in a row, that it now takes me a couple of days of getting good sleep and recovering to get back to normal. But, in an effort to address your question, I hope the above makes sense.

*I never drank playing competitive softball.

 

[Zow]

respectfully what drives our apparent collective need to be altered it is fascinating to me take that to the bank brohans

I'd say stress (financial, work, relationship, etc.) and then there's also peer pressure. You'll note that many in here, including me, mention drinking as a way to wind down. It's just a heck of a lot easier to do that then to spend 20 minutes meditating or 30 minutes exercising to potentially get a similar effect.

i totally understand that we drink to relieve stress and to make social situations easier and other reasons but my question is why the damage we are doing to our bodies is undeniable and we just as a society cant seem to say no and in fact its glorified no one glorifies any other sort of consumption that is so obviously bad for us its a funny thing to me take that to the bank brohans

Do you not live in the United States? Walk around sometime and look at what people are eating.

Or, you know, spend a few minutes on Tiktok or facebook with the food clips.

 

[wlwiles]

I drink for taste, not for effect. Actually, as soon as I start to feel any effect (buzz), I'll stop drinking because I absolutely hate hate hate hangovers. Haven't blacked out or been hungover in over a decade.

My typical week is 2 (neat) whiskey drinks per night, 5 nights per week, and I wait until the kid goes to bed. Tue & Thu nights I skip just because of family related responsibilities. If I didn't have those things to do though I'd absolutely be an everyday drinker.

I'm a "sit in the recliner, kick my shoes off, the house is quiet, ahhhhhh the day is over, now its time to relax" kind of drinker. A lot of nights my wife will pour a glass of Moscato with me and we'll just sit and chat. I limit it to 2 per night not to protect myself from over-doing it, it's to stretch my budget so I'm not spending so much $ on more booze. My tolerance would probably allow me 3-4 pours before I'd feel the effect and cut myself off, but that gets more expensive.

The only beer I ever drink anymore is if we're in a restaurant, and it's always a single beer. 2+ beers bloats me and I feel terrible the rest of the night. But I love a cold draft beer. Haven't bought beer and put it in my fridge in at least 5 years though. Haven't had a glass of wine in forever - I've tried all the main "types" but I just have no appreciation for it and would always prefer something else.

 

[3C's]

But I enjoy every aspect of the ritual, including the delicious taste of the brew and gradual unwinding at the end of the day. Am I addicted? Probably not, I've quit without much difficulty in the past for things like Dry January or Whole 30. But even if I am, I don't care. Consumption adds to the quality of my life and if 2 beers a night means I end up with a shorter life that I enjoy more than a longer life that I enjoy less, that's a trade I feel good about

Me too man, me too. Except the making dinner with the wife part.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun. The problem is that alcohol aggravates it ...****.

I have been in a love affair with alcohol since I was an early teen. It has bitten me more than a few times - and since I was diagnosed with "the sugar" I don't process it nearly as well as I used to. But I have always been a good drunk - it makes me happy so I was blessed with it never hitting me in a "mean way."

Problem is - I am going to miss it. Here recently my wife and I both got covid and was down for a week - and then coming out of it, I got food poisoning ...oh sweet baby jeebus - I have never felt so bad in my life. Total time of feeling horrible between the two was like 2.5 weeks ...just horrible. Didn't have a drink.

We had my son over for his birthday last Friday and I was looking forward to celebrating ...and I dove into my normal VO and diet cokes. Had a blast.

Saturday morning, I damn near couldn't breath, and I was just laying on the couch. It wasn't really a hangover - my heart said, "What the hell man???" So I'm going back to the heart doctor to see if/when I will need surgery (hopefully says I don't ...just be more careful). So it seems like goodbye old friend ...to any real extent anyway.

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

 

[JohnnyU]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun. The problem is that alcohol aggravates it ...****.

I have been in a love affair with alcohol since I was an early teen. It has bitten me more than a few times - and since I was diagnosed with "the sugar" I don't process it nearly as well as I used to. But I have always been a good drunk - it makes me happy so I was blessed with it never hitting me in a "mean way."

Problem is - I am going to miss it. Here recently my wife and I both got covid and was down for a week - and then coming out of it, I got food poisoning ...oh sweet baby jeebus - I have never felt so bad in my life. Total time of feeling horrible between the two was like 2.5 weeks ...just horrible. Didn't have a drink.

We had my son over for his birthday last Friday and I was looking forward to celebrating ...and I dove into my normal VO and diet cokes. Had a blast.

Saturday morning, I damn near couldn't breath, and I was just laying on the couch. It wasn't really a hangover - my heart said, "What the hell man???" So I'm going back to the heart doctor to see if/when I will need surgery (hopefully says I don't ...just be more careful). So it seems like goodbye old friend ...to any real extent anyway.

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

Like I said earlier, the body eventually talks to you about heavy alcohol use. Father Time is undefeated and your body gets to a point where it can no longer take what it once could. If you listen to what your body is trying to tell you, you will probably start feeling better. I know this as a fact.

 

[GenX fan]

I'm 14+. I drink more than I should but I'm not addicted. I can take it or leave it. It doesn't seem to cause me any health problems and to be honest I sometimes sleep better when I've had drinks before bed.

Part of me wants to give it up because I know it will really harm me in the end.
Another part of me figures that WW3/climate change/civil war/ Capitalism failing will kill me a lot faster than alcohol so drink up.

 

[3C's]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun. The problem is that alcohol aggravates it ...****.

I have been in a love affair with alcohol since I was an early teen. It has bitten me more than a few times - and since I was diagnosed with "the sugar" I don't process it nearly as well as I used to. But I have always been a good drunk - it makes me happy so I was blessed with it never hitting me in a "mean way."

Problem is - I am going to miss it. Here recently my wife and I both got covid and was down for a week - and then coming out of it, I got food poisoning ...oh sweet baby jeebus - I have never felt so bad in my life. Total time of feeling horrible between the two was like 2.5 weeks ...just horrible. Didn't have a drink.

We had my son over for his birthday last Friday and I was looking forward to celebrating ...and I dove into my normal VO and diet cokes. Had a blast.

Saturday morning, I damn near couldn't breath, and I was just laying on the couch. It wasn't really a hangover - my heart said, "What the hell man???" So I'm going back to the heart doctor to see if/when I will need surgery (hopefully says I don't ...just be more careful). So it seems like goodbye old friend ...to any real extent anyway.

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

Good luck man, hopefully no surgery needed.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun. The problem is that alcohol aggravates it ...****.

I have been in a love affair with alcohol since I was an early teen. It has bitten me more than a few times - and since I was diagnosed with "the sugar" I don't process it nearly as well as I used to. But I have always been a good drunk - it makes me happy so I was blessed with it never hitting me in a "mean way."

Problem is - I am going to miss it. Here recently my wife and I both got covid and was down for a week - and then coming out of it, I got food poisoning ...oh sweet baby jeebus - I have never felt so bad in my life. Total time of feeling horrible between the two was like 2.5 weeks ...just horrible. Didn't have a drink.

We had my son over for his birthday last Friday and I was looking forward to celebrating ...and I dove into my normal VO and diet cokes. Had a blast.

Saturday morning, I damn near couldn't breath, and I was just laying on the couch. It wasn't really a hangover - my heart said, "What the hell man???" So I'm going back to the heart doctor to see if/when I will need surgery (hopefully says I don't ...just be more careful). So it seems like goodbye old friend ...to any real extent anyway.

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

Good luck man, hopefully no surgery needed.

Surgery is offer the best route. I fought having an ablation out of fear and ignorance. Get a 2nd opinion and if they agree, do what they say.

 

[playin4beer]

I voted 7-13... some weeks it's way less than that, some, way more... I am a 100% a social drinker.. I hardly ever have beer in the fridge at my house, I don't like hard liquor except vodka and that has to be mixed with juice. If I'm golfing, I'm drinking. If I'm at the casino, I'm drinking.. If I'm watching a sporting event on tv with buddies, I'm drinking. If I'm sitting at home, not drinking.

 

[JohnnyU]

I voted 7-13... some weeks it's way less than that, some, way more... I am a 100% a social drinker.. I hardly ever have beer in the fridge at my house, I don't like hard liquor except vodka and that has to be mixed with juice. If I'm golfing, I'm drinking. If I'm at the casino, I'm drinking.. If I'm watching a sporting event on tv with buddies, I'm drinking. If I'm sitting at home, not drinking.

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other. There is no difference. Probably safer to drink at home If you’re going to have too much.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4- beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Ok, sure. 4 beers in two hours or less
can get you a DWI

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4- beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Ok, sure. 4 beers in two hours or less
can get you a DWI

forget it. you don't seem to understand, that's ok.

Oh I understood perfectly. He didn’t go into specifics on how much he drinks on a given outing, so if you have several on a a single night out, it could be too much.

 

[JohnnyU]

Frank Galvin drank socially

 

[playin4beer]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

 

[playin4beer]

I voted 7-13... some weeks it's way less than that, some, way more... I am a 100% a social drinker.. I hardly ever have beer in the fridge at my house, I don't like hard liquor except vodka and that has to be mixed with juice. If I'm golfing, I'm drinking. If I'm at the casino, I'm drinking.. If I'm watching a sporting event on tv with buddies, I'm drinking. If I'm sitting at home, not drinking.

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other. There is no difference. Probably safer to drink at home If you’re going to have too much.

I'm not justifying anything.. Just answering Joe's question. I've been married 27 years and raised 4 daughters.. none of which have ever said to me, "You know, I think you drink a little too much".

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Regardless, more than 14 drinks per week, or 5 in a single sitting, is considered heavy consumption, medically.

I've wondered about the "single sitting". That seems super vague. Wouldn't it be much better to speak of it in "dinks per hour" or something like that?

I "sitting" for me might be 45 minutes for a lunch, 2 hours for a Friday afternoon or 3 1/2 hours for a game.

Is there a more precise guideline there?

Not that I‘m aware of, and tbh, I don’t know how those limits were derived.

But I also think distinctions people make about “feeling buzzed”, “drunk”, etc., probably aren’t super relevant, when considering cumulative damage alcohol imparts on one’s body. That’s not to say alcohol can’t have acute toxicity of medical relevance, but I suspect the cut-offs more reflect closely reflect risk of long-term medical (and psychosocial) consequences.

 

[Terminalxylem]

respectfully what drives our apparent collective need to be altered it is fascinating to me take that to the bank brohans

Agree. I get it when you’re older and debilitated, but not younger and able-minded/bodied. Exercise is a far better outlet to blow off steam/relax imo.

 

[JohnnyU]

I have a question for the people that drink to relax after a difficult day. How does that work? I have tried that a couple of times and it doesn't relax me. I must be doing it wrong.

I probably average 1 drink a week for thr entire year, but they all happen on vacation, during the summer on the boat or at parties, or a special occasion.

The only other thing I noticed was my coordination was off.

But from the sound of some of these posts, many people only start to feel “good” after multiple drinks, with mild sedation when they stop before that point.

I'll speak to the bold because, again, my primary place of alcohol consumption is the golf course and one of the primary factors for my decision to imbibe is that I genuinely find that I play better with the right amount of alcohol in my system. For example, if I had to shoot a certain score or make a certain golf shot in order to save my kids' lives or some similarly extreme hypothetical, I legitimately would do so with alcohol in my system. While this sounds bizarre and seemingly unbelievable, I'd make the following points about it to try to best explain it:
1. Permission to relax - As mentioned previously in this thread, the golf course is pretty much my lone place where the natural life stressors (for me, mostly work) can be put aside for a few hours. For example, when I experience a particular work trauma (viewing highly sensitive materials, viewing a client attempt suicide, losing a big trial, etc.) or a personal trauma (e.g. when my son was placed back with his bio mother after two years with us), the golf course is where I go to clear my mind and, basically, stop thinking about these sorts of things. But, unlike something like a basketball game where there is really no downtime to be checking phone/email, golf does have reasonable chances to do so. So, to avoid my normal stress and temptation of checking my work phone, ingesting alcohol permits me to justify not doing so because I can't be doing my job while intoxicated and, bizarrely, it's somewhat socially and professionally acceptable to say, "hey, sorry I didn't respond to your emergent situation yesterday, I was on the golf course and had had some whisky." In short, that sip of whisky as I'm hitting balls on the range to warm up gives me my own personal permission to turn work and other aspects of life off which is good for one's mental health.
2. Golf, unlike much more physically demanding sports whereby stamina and pure strength are required, is much more of a game of precision and coordination. So, where I would never even dream of drinking while playing basketball, baseball, football, softball,* hockey or even tennis, it's certainly doable on the golf course.
3. Performance enhancing - Moving on to your point about coordination, my experience is that alcohol for certain coordination and precision type games such as golf, bowling, ping pong, billiards, darts, etc. there is a certain "sweet spot" where alcohol serves to relax the nerves but does not yet significantly impair fine motor function. I would note that there's some science backing this concept, as the National Hight and Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) testing of alcohol impairment's impacts on a person's ability to drive demonstrated that a person actually drives better between a .02 and .04 BAC (a couple of drinks for the average person). For me, the impact on my golf game is that sober I may be thinking things like "you weren't great on the range and lost a few to the right and there is ob right here" or "just ensure your par here" when, studies in sports psychology have shown that an "aim small, miss small" mindset and going for the shot usually works out better.
4. Pain management - As I've gotten into my 40s and more out of shape, I experience mild and occasional back pain and my joints and tendons get sorer sooner and easier. Alcohol, as a depressant, does help to manage some of this pain so that I'm still swinging full speed on hole 18.
5. Irrational confidence - "Beer muscles" or whatever you want to call it are a thing and, on the course, I can channel this directly (and, I think, healthily) into competing and truly having faith in myself that I can make that 275 yard carry shot or, essentially, beat anybody I'm matched against.

Now, of course, the above all notwithstanding I fully recognize that alcohol is basically poison and I'd probably be better off spending my free time doing a much more healthy activity like hiking, crossfit, etc. Also, I do recognize the downside that just keeps getting worse as I age in that the alcohol recovery does impact parts of my life such as having energy to play with my kids the next day (I'll usually drink/golf Saturday and spend time with my kids Sundays) or even just, if I drink/golf a few days in a row, that it now takes me a couple of days of getting good sleep and recovering to get back to normal. But, in an effort to address your question, I hope the above makes sense.

*I never drank playing competitive softball.

I used to feel that way about playing pool, especially for cash . You’re fine right up to the point where you cross the line of too many.

 

[Godsbrother]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

What is your definition on trashed? Above 0.8 BAC?

 

[Joe Bryant]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun. The problem is that alcohol aggravates it ...****.

I have been in a love affair with alcohol since I was an early teen. It has bitten me more than a few times - and since I was diagnosed with "the sugar" I don't process it nearly as well as I used to. But I have always been a good drunk - it makes me happy so I was blessed with it never hitting me in a "mean way."

Problem is - I am going to miss it. Here recently my wife and I both got covid and was down for a week - and then coming out of it, I got food poisoning ...oh sweet baby jeebus - I have never felt so bad in my life. Total time of feeling horrible between the two was like 2.5 weeks ...just horrible. Didn't have a drink.

We had my son over for his birthday last Friday and I was looking forward to celebrating ...and I dove into my normal VO and diet cokes. Had a blast.

Saturday morning, I damn near couldn't breath, and I was just laying on the couch. It wasn't really a hangover - my heart said, "What the hell man???" So I'm going back to the heart doctor to see if/when I will need surgery (hopefully says I don't ...just be more careful). So it seems like goodbye old friend ...to any real extent anyway.

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

Hang in there GB. Hope all goes well there.

 

[Zow]

I have a question for the people that drink to relax after a difficult day. How does that work? I have tried that a couple of times and it doesn't relax me. I must be doing it wrong.

I probably average 1 drink a week for thr entire year, but they all happen on vacation, during the summer on the boat or at parties, or a special occasion.

The only other thing I noticed was my coordination was off.

But from the sound of some of these posts, many people only start to feel “good” after multiple drinks, with mild sedation when they stop before that point.

I'll speak to the bold because, again, my primary place of alcohol consumption is the golf course and one of the primary factors for my decision to imbibe is that I genuinely find that I play better with the right amount of alcohol in my system. For example, if I had to shoot a certain score or make a certain golf shot in order to save my kids' lives or some similarly extreme hypothetical, I legitimately would do so with alcohol in my system. While this sounds bizarre and seemingly unbelievable, I'd make the following points about it to try to best explain it:
1. Permission to relax - As mentioned previously in this thread, the golf course is pretty much my lone place where the natural life stressors (for me, mostly work) can be put aside for a few hours. For example, when I experience a particular work trauma (viewing highly sensitive materials, viewing a client attempt suicide, losing a big trial, etc.) or a personal trauma (e.g. when my son was placed back with his bio mother after two years with us), the golf course is where I go to clear my mind and, basically, stop thinking about these sorts of things. But, unlike something like a basketball game where there is really no downtime to be checking phone/email, golf does have reasonable chances to do so. So, to avoid my normal stress and temptation of checking my work phone, ingesting alcohol permits me to justify not doing so because I can't be doing my job while intoxicated and, bizarrely, it's somewhat socially and professionally acceptable to say, "hey, sorry I didn't respond to your emergent situation yesterday, I was on the golf course and had had some whisky." In short, that sip of whisky as I'm hitting balls on the range to warm up gives me my own personal permission to turn work and other aspects of life off which is good for one's mental health.
2. Golf, unlike much more physically demanding sports whereby stamina and pure strength are required, is much more of a game of precision and coordination. So, where I would never even dream of drinking while playing basketball, baseball, football, softball,* hockey or even tennis, it's certainly doable on the golf course.
3. Performance enhancing - Moving on to your point about coordination, my experience is that alcohol for certain coordination and precision type games such as golf, bowling, ping pong, billiards, darts, etc. there is a certain "sweet spot" where alcohol serves to relax the nerves but does not yet significantly impair fine motor function. I would note that there's some science backing this concept, as the National Hight and Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) testing of alcohol impairment's impacts on a person's ability to drive demonstrated that a person actually drives better between a .02 and .04 BAC (a couple of drinks for the average person). For me, the impact on my golf game is that sober I may be thinking things like "you weren't great on the range and lost a few to the right and there is ob right here" or "just ensure your par here" when, studies in sports psychology have shown that an "aim small, miss small" mindset and going for the shot usually works out better.
4. Pain management - As I've gotten into my 40s and more out of shape, I experience mild and occasional back pain and my joints and tendons get sorer sooner and easier. Alcohol, as a depressant, does help to manage some of this pain so that I'm still swinging full speed on hole 18.
5. Irrational confidence - "Beer muscles" or whatever you want to call it are a thing and, on the course, I can channel this directly (and, I think, healthily) into competing and truly having faith in myself that I can make that 275 yard carry shot or, essentially, beat anybody I'm matched against.

Now, of course, the above all notwithstanding I fully recognize that alcohol is basically poison and I'd probably be better off spending my free time doing a much more healthy activity like hiking, crossfit, etc. Also, I do recognize the downside that just keeps getting worse as I age in that the alcohol recovery does impact parts of my life such as having energy to play with my kids the next day (I'll usually drink/golf Saturday and spend time with my kids Sundays) or even just, if I drink/golf a few days in a row, that it now takes me a couple of days of getting good sleep and recovering to get back to normal. But, in an effort to address your question, I hope the above makes sense.

*I never drank playing competitive softball.

I used to feel that way about playing pool, especially for cash . You’re fine right up to the point where you cross the line of too many.

Yep, it definitely works like a plateau or runway and once you reach the end it you can definitely crash. With golf, I've really gotten honed in on what that looks like for me and, as pathetic as this may sound, it takes quite a bit for my game to start to deteriorate. A good golfing buddy and I also will "drink caddie" each other to make sure we "don't overshoot the landing" as we like to call it. This usually includes utilizing energy shots, hydration packets, etc.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

What is your definition on trashed? Above 0.8 BAC?

Stumbling, slurring, telling the same boring stories, being too loud, dominating conversation.

 

[Godsbrother]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

What is your definition on trashed? Above 0.8 BAC?

Stumbling, slurring, telling the same boring stories, being too loud, dominating conversation.

Fair enough. I don't drink enough to get to that point ever. Except for the boring stories part, I do that without drinking.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

What is your definition on trashed? Above 0.8 BAC?

Stumbling, slurring, telling the same boring stories, being too loud, dominating conversation.

Fair enough. I don't drink enough to get to that point ever. Except for the boring stories part, I do that without drinking.

…….or saying, “I love you man!”.

 

[Godsbrother]

…….or saying, “I love you man!”.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...

 

[JohnnyU]

…….or saying, “I love you man!”.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...

Only if you do it when sober……jk

 

[Zow]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

He said 7-13 sometimes less and sometimes way more and only a social drinker.

That could be two nights out a week with 4-5 beers each night - that's a social drinker.

Bottom line is no one thinks alcohol is less damaging if its taken socially.

Obviously I know alcohol is damaging.. am I an alcoholic?? I don't THINK so, but some people may not see it that way. I think of an alcoholic as "needing" to drink.. Drinking pretty much every day. I'll go a couple of weeks without a drink .. But on vacation, I'll drink every single day. My point was, I don't drink alone.. never have.

Is drinking alone somehow worse than binge drinking on a weekend with friends? Not saying you do that either. I know people who ONLY drink on weekends, but they get trashed. That is still alcoholism.

What is your definition on trashed? Above 0.8 BAC?

Stumbling, slurring, telling the same boring stories, being too loud, dominating conversation.

Yeah, for me, the post-alcohol depression syndrome thoughts always focus on the post-round **** talking that I did and wondering if it was too much, did I make a fool of myself, etc. I did have a golfing buddy pull me aside during a tournament he put on last summer and tell me I he didn't appreciate how loud I was post-round. Basically, I won the tournament the year prior and, as such, I had to buy a bottle of Blanton's for the group. I did so, played well again, and got my money's worth of the Blanton's. I also drunkenly announced the wrong score on a hole that mattered which never goes over well in a serious game with thousands in the pot (which this was).

We've been cool since but I've been very cognizant about letting out my trashed post-round version around since as it's kind of embarrassing.

Note: sober me is a pretty quiet, kind guy so I think most are entertained when they see me come out of my shell a bit and do some celebrating and ****-talking. My close golf group even has a name for it and they call me it endearingly. But, it's not for everybody and many of the very serious guys don't love it.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I am most definitely asking my PCP for a marijuana slip - anyone else shift from alcohol to gummies?

Its a common trend ("California sober"), discussed somewhat upthread and in the pot topic thread here. I think its fair to say most people consider it a good trade-off in terms of health if you are truly substituting pot edibles and consuming less alcohol. In practice, I find that's true some nights while other nights it seems the two go pretty well together. When I decide to add a cigar to the mix, it means I've probably got a slow day coming up.

Good luck man

 

[urbanhack]

I'm still in the 7-13 range. Been working my way down in total volume over the last few years. Almost no drinks Sunday through Thursday and then it can vary over the weekend. I don't like to be hungover any longer, so making conscious effort to not have that last drink of the night. Instead I'll sub with cannabis and kombucha or something.

More cannabis and micro dosing psilocybin are definitely trends out here. Lot's more mocktails on menus than ever before.

My rule of thumb is just don't drink something to drink. I still like nice tequila or fresh west coast IPAs. If I can't get those I'll drink something NA.

I've definitely abused alcohol during several periods of my life and have consistently drank for more than 30 years. I've consumed a lot of beer the last two decades under the guise of being a craft beer geek. Pretty much no more barrel aged or bourbon beers. Most potent brew for me is a 8 or 9% double IPA from time to time.

 

[rockaction]

so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun.

Argh. Best wishes to you, Binky. I'd imagine a change in diet is imperative here. Take care of yourself, okay?

 

[AAABatteries]

I've consumed a lot of beer the last two decades under the guise of being a craft beer geek. Pretty much no more barrel aged or bourbon beers.

This is really tough for me. I still absolutely love drinking a really good barrel aged stout. I prefer it to eating dessert.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

welp ...my time with alcohol may be coming to an end (mostly anyway). I hadn't been feeling great, so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

Damn Binky. Hoping for the best outcomes.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

so I went to a heart doctor, they did some testing and I have leaky valve in my heart ...ugh.

The symptoms are essentially that you run out of breath quickly - with a minimum of physical exertion. I mean it will damn near drop you - you get sharp pains in your neck ...not fun.

Argh. Best wishes to you, Binky. I'd imagine a change in diet is imperative here. Take care of yourself, okay?

I keep my weight down pretty well though I do take meds for high cholesterol - not horrible, but higher than it should be.

lost a bunch of weight with the covid and food poisoning bout - down to 161lbs (5'9") - I'm lean and mean baby

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

I disagree. It’s a rationization. Especially if you have 4+ when socially drinking.

 

[AAABatteries]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

I disagree. It’s a rationization. Especially if you have 4+ when socially drinking.

Whether it's an explanation or rationalization I'm not sure and don't really care - but I do find it interesting the difference in folks. I drink more by myself than with others and really only socially drink when I'm with a certain group of friends. Most of my family don't drink at all and lean more towards drinking is morally wrong than not drinking for health reasons (religious).

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Some people justify heavy drinking being OK if you’re in a social setting and not drinking alone, as if one is somehow better than the other.

Most people are home way more than they are in social situations. If someone says they're a "social drinker", they are not saying the alcohol is less harmful, just that they don't drink all that often.

I disagree. It’s a rationization. Especially if you have 4+ when socially drinking.

I’ll just agree to disagree then. Maybe there’s some subtle nuance to what I’m trying to say that I’m not quite expressing correctly but I’m not speaking from the perspective of someone that had to rationalize. A lot depends on a lot of factors that we don’t have for each different individual and some sweeping generalizations get made. I’m trying to avoid doing so and maybe trying to counter some.

 

[Wrigley]

I'm a weekend drinker, may have a few too many(weekend) if the wife and I sit up and watch a couple movies.

But this past weekend, went out with a buddy of mine who is going through a separation. Woke up on his couch, not knowing where I was. Checked my phone only to see that my wife had called 4 times, and texted me at last that many times.

I was in trouble when I got home, but she was glad that I didn't try and get behind the wheel.

3 day hangovers are the worst.