** OFFICIAL ** Cleveland Guardians thread - spring training (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

Bunts aside because bunts are the worst.

What's the probability of Frankie successfully stealing that base? What's the probability of Mercado or Santana getting a hit? What's the probability of Mercado or Santana getting a hit with the infield in? What's the probability of Mercado hitting the ball deep enough that Frankie can score from 3rd even without a Mercado hit? If Workman throws the CB like he often does then he's safe. Even with the FB he barely got thrown out.

It's a sin to make the first out of the inning at 3B, but the second? Nah. I think it was a great calculated risk that just didn't pan out.

 

[Bobcat10]

They definitely have some freedom to run and bunt based on their own reads.  I enjoy the small ball play in this day and age of Dinger-Nation.  A Mercado bunt down 3B line would've pulled the 3B off allowing Frankie to move to 3rd.  I would have assumed Mercado would be giving himself up in that situation in order to advance the runner.  With Frankie on 3B, the scoring percentage increases with a Los single, or even a WP.  Boston is a top 3 team in the AL, if not MLB, for WP - especially their relievers.  I have to think this was a topic with the team and certain players had the greenlight to steal when they thought they had the opportunity.

I do agree that it was risky, and the batter/runner need to be on the same page to execute a hit and run, sac bunt, and even a steal.  I'd like to chalk it up to Mercado being a rookie, but he's been playing ball long enough to know better.

I like to see the aggressiveness from the team.  They have the "not gonna keep us down" vibe going right now.  On the plus side, it's not like the Tribe will see Boston in the playoffs this year.  

What you describe still only makes sense if there are no outs (or if we're talking little league baseball perhaps).  Sacrifice bunting a runner to 3b with 1 out is just not a good baseball move.  Nothing tilts that to good.

I can agree with you guys that the steal itself wasn't so horrible, I'd rather have just played it out though especially with Mercado not being aware of it.

Hey Mac, when you calculate all that stuff, don't forget the double play factor.  

 

[The Man With No Name]

Nice start in N.Y.

 

[Tom Servo]

Nice start in N.Y.

19-5, baby! That's like the third time we've whipped them like that.

Honestly, beating the Yankees that bad is better than sex. Yeah, I didn't stutter.

 

[Tom Servo]

NY Post Sports - The Indians are the playoff nightmare the Yankees should want to avoid.

 

[Da Guru]

NY Post Sports - The Indians are the playoff nightmare the Yankees should want to avoid.

Frankie and Joey are on fire right now.

 

[Tom Servo]

Mets fan roasted for catching ball Mercado was trying to catch.

 

[Peak]

So.....it's time to pull Hand from the closer role for awhile.  Move some people around in the bullpen.

How does Hand not cover first for the DP?  Even if he wouldn't have made it on time, at least move towards the bag.  Do something!!

Cimber finally doing what he should do...be a RHH specialist and only pitch to one batter.  He shouldn't be left out there for longer than that.

Witt has looked really good lately.  Let him have a chance to close.  He did very well, I thought.

Hand needs time off.  He's all mental now.  Since the ASB, he has an ERA over 8.00 and blown about 10-11 save opportunities.  How long is his leash?  SMH

 

[Tom Servo]

Happy awkward anniversary, Blunderwood.

 

[MAC_32]

So.....it's time to pull Hand from the closer role for awhile.  Move some people around in the bullpen.

How does Hand not cover first for the DP?  Even if he wouldn't have made it on time, at least move towards the bag.  Do something!!

Cimber finally doing what he should do...be a RHH specialist and only pitch to one batter.  He shouldn't be left out there for longer than that.

Witt has looked really good lately.  Let him have a chance to close.  He did very well, I thought.

Hand needs time off.  He's all mental now.  Since the ASB, he has an ERA over 8.00 and blown about 10-11 save opportunities.  How long is his leash?  SMH

You new with Tito?

Hand is your closer. 

 

[Peak]

You new with Tito?

Hand is your closer. 

I know...but I gotta hope.  I was yelling at my laptop yesterday reading Tito make excuses for Hand not covering 1B.  Completely blown away, yet not too surprised.  I like Tito, and I think he can manage a game very well - especially the chess matches with PHs and RPs.  But this blind loyalty to some players is a little overboard.  The casual fan can see that Hand is in his head and needs to reset himself - Tito should be able to see this too.  Hand isn't going to magically get better because you put him back out there to "work through it".  

Ultimately, none of that matters if the offense can't start hitting the ball w/RISP.  Far too many runners left on base these last few series.  Now the Tribe is out of the playoff picture by a half game.  Granted their schedule loosens up a bit, but they need to take advantage of every opportunity here on out.

 

[MAC_32]

I know...but I gotta hope.  I was yelling at my laptop yesterday reading Tito make excuses for Hand not covering 1B.  Completely blown away, yet not too surprised.  I like Tito, and I think he can manage a game very well - especially the chess matches with PHs and RPs.  But this blind loyalty to some players is a little overboard.  The casual fan can see that Hand is in his head and needs to reset himself - Tito should be able to see this too.  Hand isn't going to magically get better because you put him back out there to "work through it".  

Ultimately, none of that matters if the offense can't start hitting the ball w/RISP.  Far too many runners left on base these last few series.  Now the Tribe is out of the playoff picture by a half game.  Granted their schedule loosens up a bit, but they need to take advantage of every opportunity here on out.

Here's the thing - long term, his approach generally works as the player works through it. It's why he has more success here with whatever he's given than other managers on other teams throughout the rest of the league.  Fans don't think long term though.

 

[Peak]

Here's the thing - long term, his approach generally works as the player works through it. It's why he has more success here with whatever he's given than other managers on other teams throughout the rest of the league.  Fans don't think long term though.

How did that approach work out for Cody Allen or Andrew Miller?  Both fell off their games and never recovered.  Some may have to do with arm issues, but could that be related to Tito ignoring some early signs and letting them "work through it"? 

I get the long game, but sometimes it's better to bench a guy for a bit and let him get his mind right vs trotting him out there every night and getting his bell rung.  Hand isn't showing any signs of body fatigue as Miller and Allen did, so I have to think it's all in his head.  He's throwing his BB pitch way inside on RHH and missing his spots.  Then he over compensates and puts it over the middle of the plate letting the batter tee off on it.  His FB velocity is still good (93-94), but his location is missing.  Hand needs to take a step back and fix what's ailing him.  This next stretch would have been a good time to let him "work it out", as they're now up against the scrubs of the AL Central.  But when they needed the win, I think Tito let the team down by not taking him out of that situation.  I could be wrong, but that's how I see it. 

This team was sitting in a comfortable spot, and now they're back fighting to get into a WC spot.  Yes their schedule is weak, but MIN has an easier schedule, and the Tribe still has to out-win TB and OAK to get the WC.  There's a month left to play, so hopefully Hand finds himself along the way.  But I wouldn't be against bringing Cookie in to close once he's ready.  There's still plenty of games to play, and anything can happen in Sept.  I still have hope they will turn it on and get hot near the end to carry that momentum into the post season. 

 

[MAC_32]

How did that approach work out for Cody Allen or Andrew Miller?  Both fell off their games and never recovered.  Some may have to do with arm issues, but could that be related to Tito ignoring some early signs and letting them "work through it"? 

I get the long game, but sometimes it's better to bench a guy for a bit and let him get his mind right vs trotting him out there every night and getting his bell rung.  Hand isn't showing any signs of body fatigue as Miller and Allen did, so I have to think it's all in his head.  He's throwing his BB pitch way inside on RHH and missing his spots.  Then he over compensates and puts it over the middle of the plate letting the batter tee off on it.  His FB velocity is still good (93-94), but his location is missing.  Hand needs to take a step back and fix what's ailing him.  This next stretch would have been a good time to let him "work it out", as they're now up against the scrubs of the AL Central.  But when they needed the win, I think Tito let the team down by not taking him out of that situation.  I could be wrong, but that's how I see it. 

This team was sitting in a comfortable spot, and now they're back fighting to get into a WC spot.  Yes their schedule is weak, but MIN has an easier schedule, and the Tribe still has to out-win TB and OAK to get the WC.  There's a month left to play, so hopefully Hand finds himself along the way.  But I wouldn't be against bringing Cookie in to close once he's ready.  There's still plenty of games to play, and anything can happen in Sept.  I still have hope they will turn it on and get hot near the end to carry that momentum into the post season. 

I didn't know how it would happen, but I think regression after taking the division lead was always the most likely outcome. They spent months fighting to get to the top and it takes more energy to chase. Combine that with a brutal schedule and a rough week was inevitable. This weekend offers a great opportunity to reset their minds and recalibrate before 6 important games with Minnesota.

Re Allen and Miller, he's never going to bat 1.000. His batting average is Ted Williams with this approach compared to the alternatives though. His patience generally drives corrections from his core players. I think you have to accept the little bad for all the good. Except when it comes to bunting anyway. #### bunts.

 

[Bobcat10]

I know...but I gotta hope.  I was yelling at my laptop yesterday reading Tito make excuses for Hand not covering 1B.  Completely blown away, yet not too surprised.  I like Tito, and I think he can manage a game very well - especially the chess matches with PHs and RPs.  But this blind loyalty to some players is a little overboard. 

I didn't catch what Tito said after the game but I thought the play was at home (corners were in I believe) so Hand didn't do anything wrong.  Maybe that's what he said, I'm not sure.  

 

[Peak]

#### bunts.

   

 

[Peak]

I didn't catch what Tito said after the game but I thought the play was at home (corners were in I believe) so Hand didn't do anything wrong.  Maybe that's what he said, I'm not sure.  

Tito basically threw Los under the bus by saying he (Tito) thought Los should've thrown the ball home to stop the run.  If I recall, I thought that only Ramirez was playing in, with Los covering the base - normal depth.  Los had to charge the ball, which effectively took him out of play at 1B.  Little League coaching teaches the pitchers to always cover the base whenever the 1B is taken off the base when fielding a bunt.  Hand should've at least made the attempt.  That's whats bothering me, and also why I think it's all mental.  It's like he had a mental breakdown pity party on the field worrying about not hitting his spot and completely forgot there was a game going on around him.  Everyone is moving to make a play while Hand just stands there looking dumbfounded.  I think Los made the right call by going for the DP.  It would've negated the run and gave the team the boost it needed to finish strong. 

 

[Bobcat10]

Tito basically threw Los under the bus by saying he (Tito) thought Los should've thrown the ball home to stop the run.  If I recall, I thought that only Ramirez was playing in, with Los covering the base - normal depth.  Los had to charge the ball, which effectively took him out of play at 1B.  Little League coaching teaches the pitchers to always cover the base whenever the 1B is taken off the base when fielding a bunt.  Hand should've at least made the attempt.  That's whats bothering me, and also why I think it's all mental.  It's like he had a mental breakdown pity party on the field worrying about not hitting his spot and completely forgot there was a game going on around him.  Everyone is moving to make a play while Hand just stands there looking dumbfounded.  I think Los made the right call by going for the DP.  It would've negated the run and gave the team the boost it needed to finish strong. 

Santana was not at normal 1b depth, he was a step off the infield grass.  I went back to the replay and confirmed both corners were in.  

I understand trying to turn it there to end the game, but even if Hand made the attempt to get over there that's a real hard turn to make with a lefty pitcher.  Hand falls off to the 3b side pretty dramatically too.  I prefer 2b (Kipnis) covering in that situation myself (little league or MLB) and would assign some blame there.  Watch the replay, Kipnis could easily get there and set up in time if he tried.  He burst towards the grounder as if he might field it, then basically stopped and watched once Santana gathered it in.  Nobody was on the same page.  

Santana goes home with it, that runner is out easily.  

 

[Peak]

Santana was not at normal 1b depth, he was a step off the infield grass.  I went back to the replay and confirmed both corners were in. 

Thanks for clarifying.  I thought he was closer to normal depth.  Agreed on Kipnis too.  The angle I saw was of Kipnis running behind Santana, but assumed he was out of position to make the play at 1B either.  Maybe only Frankie and Los were on the same page with the turn two attempt?  Still not sure I'd go home with that, as it wasn't the force out - but it is what it is...

 

[Bobcat10]

Thanks for clarifying.  I thought he was closer to normal depth.  Agreed on Kipnis too.  The angle I saw was of Kipnis running behind Santana, but assumed he was out of position to make the play at 1B either.  Maybe only Frankie and Los were on the same page with the turn two attempt?  Still not sure I'd go home with that, as it wasn't the force out - but it is what it is...

Right, Lindor was ready to turn two from the pitch, he was positioned very close to second base.  

If Kipnis kept motoring to the bag he'd have beaten an aware Hand there easily.  Kipnis and Hand both kinda froze thinking the play was going home, at least that is what it looks like.  Kipnis may have still had time to recover if he reacted when Santana turned.  There was no chance for Hand (I still don't think he makes it there in time either way).  

 

[Bobcat10]

Minny's next 10 games are DET/CWS/DET.  Division is looking like it's theirs.  But I know we still have 6 more against them.  

We really need to take most of these next 6 games, and get Hand right, before heading down to TB for what is looking like a monster series.  

 

[MAC_32]

Minny's next 10 games are DET/CWS/DET.  Division is looking like it's theirs.  But I know we still have 6 more against them.  

We really need to take most of these next 6 games, and get Hand right, before heading down to TB for what is looking like a monster series.  

Tampa's held together with sticky tack and glue right now. Yes, you need to win there. But you should. They had a good W/L in August, but look at who they beat. And it looks like you're dodging Yarbrough and I don't think any of the currently injured starters will be back until after Sep 1.

 

[Peak]

James Karinchak has been on a roll in Cbus.  I have to think he'll be a Sept 1 call up to help bolster the BP.  According to MLB rules, he'll need to be on the 40 man roster by 11:59pm on 8/31 to be eligible for Post-Season play.  Who else may be called up?  I'd have to think some other pitchers will get a look.  Cookie is an obvious choice.  Logan Allen?  

 

[Bobcat10]

Tampa's held together with sticky tack and glue right now. Yes, you need to win there. But you should. They had a good W/L in August, but look at who they beat. And it looks like you're dodging Yarbrough and I don't think any of the currently injured starters will be back until after Sep 1.

Right, that's why they play the games lol.  We could easily go down there and get skunked.

 

[Peak]

Carrasco being activated to return for Sunday.

Dan Otero coming with him, it seems.  Also sounds like Luplow could be joining them.  Looking forward to who else will get the September call up.

This team needs to keep putting crooked numbers on the board to catch up with Minny...With that said, it looks like the easier path to the WS would go through the WC vs Oak or TB, followed by NYY.  HOU is a very good team, and one I'd rather not play in the first round.

 

[Tom Servo]

Talk is that the Tribe may play a doubleheader on Saturday to get out of Florida before the hurricane hits.

 

[Tom Servo]

Carrasco being activated to return for Sunday.

Dan Otero coming with him, it seems.  Also sounds like Luplow could be joining them.  Looking forward to who else will get the September call up.

From Hammy talking during the game, they don't foresee too many call-ups.

Also, Salazar gave up 3 runs in 2/3 of an inning last night. I don't really think you'll see Salazar pitch another game; he's probably toast.

 

[Peak]

Also, Salazar gave up 3 runs in 2/3 of an inning last night. I don't really think you'll see Salazar pitch another game; he's probably toast.

I thought he was toast last year.  I'm surprised the Tribe has kept him along the last couple of years, honestly.  That's just money they're throwing away.

I'd like to see them pull up some BP arms from Cbus, but maybe Cookie and OT are who they need right now in the BP?  Hand still makes me nervous every time he steps out there.  But I guess Tito is going to ride/die with Hand as closer.  

 

[Bobcat10]

From Hammy talking during the game, they don't foresee too many call-ups.

Well Columbus is in the playoffs and they have said they don't want to cripple them too much.  Cookie and Otero make sense, they're MLB players and will help the Tribe now.  They'll get some of the younger guys up throughout Sept.  I'm sure there aren't many others that will help much during a pennant race but it's good to have them around.

 

[Bobcat10]

Anyone else smell a skunk?

 

[Tom Servo]

For you kids that don't understand the new thread title

 

[Tom Servo]

Columbus won its 11th IL title last night. They await the winner of Sacramento (Giants) - Round Rock (Astros) series for the National Championship. Sacramento leads 2-0. 

The championship game will be Tuesday in Memphis and will be shown on FS1. 

 

[Peak]

James Karinchak has been on a roll in Cbus.  I have to think he'll be a Sept 1 call up to help bolster the BP.  According to MLB rules, he'll need to be on the 40 man roster by 11:59pm on 8/31 to be eligible for Post-Season play.  Who else may be called up?  I'd have to think some other pitchers will get a look.  Cookie is an obvious choice.  Logan Allen?  

He has arrived!  With Hand having mental issues, need to see who/what works.  Cookie did well, but I like him as that inning eating setup guy.  Karinchak could become a closer option.  He gets his tryout this weekend vs MIN.

 

[Tom Servo]

Fans involved in fight at the Jake charged with disorderly conduct

 

[Tom Servo]

Our chances of making the  Wild Card are still alive. Tribe has 3 each against the White Sox and Nats while the Rays have one more with the Red Sox, 2 with the Yankees and 3 against Toronto.

It could be a wild last week.

 

[Tom Servo]

2019 tie-breaker scenarios
 

Scenario: Two teams tie for the second Wild Card spot

If, for example, the Indians and Rays tied for the second AL Wild Card spot, they’d have to play each other Sept. 30 for the right to advance to the AL Wild Card Game the following day. Home-field advantage would go to the team with the better head-to-head record (Rays, 6-1).

Scenario: Three teams tie for two Wild Card spots

If the A's, Indians and Rays were all tied, the three teams would choose/receive A, B and C designations. Club A would host Club B, and the winner would advance to the Wild Card Game. Club C would then host the loser of the game between Club A and Club B to decide the other Wild Card team.

Again, the three designations are decided by head-to-head records. The A’s went 9-4 against the Rays and Indians, the Rays went 9-5 against the A’s and Indians, and the Indians went 2-11 against the A’s and Rays. So the A’s would have first pick of designation and the Rays second.

This would present a fun dilemma for the club with the first choice. Would the A’s prefer two shots at advancement (one at home, and, if that doesn’t go well, one on the road as Club A), despite the impact that might have on their pitching with yet another sudden-death game looming in the Wild Card Game proper? Or would they prefer to take their chances on a single home game (as Club C) for a chance to get to the Wild Card Game?

 

[MAC_32]

Our chances of making the  Wild Card are still alive. Tribe has 3 each against the White Sox and Nats while the Rays have one more with the Red Sox, 2 with the Yankees and 3 against Toronto.

It could be a wild last week.

Schedulers weren't too kind to you. Oakland has a week full of patsy's and while the Rays have two against the Yanks they may not have actual starters for those games. While you're finishing with 6 straight on the road - 3 without a DH. But maybe the Nats will decide not to pitch Max Sunday.

 

[Tom Servo]

Schedulers weren't too kind to you. Oakland has a week full of patsy's and while the Rays have two against the Yanks they may not have actual starters for those games. While you're finishing with 6 straight on the road - 3 without a DH. But maybe the Nats will decide not to pitch Max Sunday.

Eh, the Yankees are still battling Houston and LA for best overall record so I can see them playing pretty much full out until the end.  I've  conceded Oakland getting WC1. 

Depending on how Washington and Milwaukee do this week, the Nats may still be gunning for WC1 and need to play hard.

But, JRam comes back tomorrow!!

 

[MAC_32]

Eh, the Yankees are still battling Houston and LA for best overall record so I can see them playing pretty much full out until the end.  I've  conceded Oakland getting WC1. 

Depending on how Washington and Milwaukee do this week, the Nats may still be gunning for WC1 and need to play hard.

But, JRam comes back tomorrow!!

Oh I think the Yanks will still try for home field. The German suspension just messed up rotation plans vs. Tampa. They could pitch Tanaka tomorrow if they wanted to, but since they haven't named a starter by now I imagine they won't. Paxton and Severino went this weekend, so they aren't options.

I think the Nats/Brewers may still be up-for-grabs Sunday and maybe this is just me - but if I'm the Nats I'm bullpening Sunday. Max is my best bullet, so I'm firing that in the wild card. If the Nats win then Strasburg is in line for G1, Corbin has sufficient rest to be ready for G2, then Max G3. I think a slightly worse chance at home field is worth that alignment rather than pitching Max game #162, having Strasburg for the wild card game, and needing to pitch Anibal Sanchez G2.

 

[Peak]

Our chances of making the  Wild Card are still alive. Tribe has 3 each against the White Sox and Nats while the Rays have one more with the Red Sox, 2 with the Yankees and 3 against Toronto.

It could be a wild last week.

If there was ever a time for CLE to prove they can sweep the WhiteSox, now is the time!  Every time I catch a game in the series of these two teams, CLE has looked lifeless at the plate and squandered some good pitching.  I hope they have finally fixed that and sweep them this time!

 

[Tom Servo]

If there was ever a time for CLE to prove they can sweep the WhiteSox, now is the time!  Every time I catch a game in the series of these two teams, CLE has looked lifeless at the plate and squandered some good pitching.  I hope they have finally fixed that and sweep them this time!

They're 7-9 against them this year. Granted, they're an up and coming team, but a sweep should be possible (read: hopefully it comes to pass).

 

[Tom Servo]

Tribe rotation thru the weekend

 

[Tom Servo]

The ONE TIME you want the Yankees to win something, they roll over like a dog.

Couple that with the abysmal performance last night (  Santana), things look like they're on life support.

 

[Bobcat10]

The ONE TIME you want the Yankees to win something, they roll over like a dog.

Couple that with the abysmal performance last night (  Santana), things look like they're on life support.

Just crazy how Oak does this seemingly every year and that TB has kept this mirage (IMO, maybe I'm being harsh) up for 95+ wins.  AL is just super top/bottom heavy....strange year.  I think we have some options to fix this baby up for next year (if the Dolan's aren't going to sit on all the money that will/could come off the books), win the same amount of games and not be in a dogfight til the bitter end.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Losses that cost them  https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2019/09/5-ugly-cleveland-indians-losses-from-2019-that-could-end-up-costing-the-tribe-a-spot-in-the-playoffs.html

 

[Tom Servo]

Tonight’s lineup:

SS Lindor

CF Mercado

1B Santana

RF Puig

2B Freeman

C Perez

LF Allen

3B Flaherty

P Plesac
I guess Tito has thrown in the towel.  

 

[Capella]

Just crazy how Oak does this seemingly every year and that TB has kept this mirage (IMO, maybe I'm being harsh) up for 95+ wins.  AL is just super top/bottom heavy....strange year.  I think we have some options to fix this baby up for next year (if the Dolan's aren't going to sit on all the money that will/could come off the books), win the same amount of games and not be in a dogfight til the bitter end.

Mirage? You all won 18 of 19 against the worst team in baseball while playing in the worst division and you call another team a mirage? If the Tigers weren't in your division you likely wouldn’t have been close to the playoffs. 

 

[Bobcat10]

Mirage? You all won 18 of 19 against the worst team in baseball while playing in the worst division and you call another team a mirage? If the Tigers weren't in your division you likely wouldn’t have been close to the playoffs. 

Yes, that's what I said.  Whatever the words are that I use, please continue to enjoy your team and their great season.  

I'd say it was pretty remarkable that the Indians were in this spot after everything that's happened to them from day 1 this year.  The division they are locked into helped just like the O's and Jays helped the East and the Halos and M's helped the West.  My point above was there is literally like 1 middling team in the AL, that's not normal.  

 

[Bobcat10]

Tito started Reyes today when it didn't matter but not yesterday when JRam was out?  Considering he's used Kipnis in CF and Santana in LF in the past when it mattered, this was a head scratcher.  Did he forget Reyes played in San Diego?  

 

[Capella]

Yes, that's what I said.  Whatever the words are that I use, please continue to enjoy your team and their great season.  

I'd say it was pretty remarkable that the Indians were in this spot after everything that's happened to them from day 1 this year.  The division they are locked into helped just like the O's and Jays helped the East and the Halos and M's helped the West.  My point above was there is literally like 1 middling team in the AL, that's not normal.  

The combined RD of the Al East is like +30. For the central it’s around -330. It doesn’t really matter a lot, but the divisions aren’t even close.