Free undergraduate admissions advice (2 Viewers)

[MAC_32]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Is my EFC a combined number or is it per child since I filled out 3? Please say combined.

All of them will be considered.

 

[chet]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

 

[ffjunk]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

 

[MAC_32]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

How is your credit? Wife? Ex wife? If any are poor and you apply for a parent plus loan then get denied your kids are eligible for additional unsub loans. If you get accepted you can take the loan too, up to your determined eligibility.

 

[ffjunk]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

How is your credit? Wife? Ex wife? If any are poor and you apply for a parent plus loan then get denied your kids are eligible for additional unsub loans. If you get accepted you can take the loan too, up to your determined eligibility.

Credit is good. Married, no ex. Living up in the northeast is expensive and we won't qualify for too much of a parent plus loan just because we are maxed out on our mortgage. I really don't think the fafsa is up to date on cost of living in different areas. I read an article and they basically want 47 cents on the dollar over a minimum threshold. We are able to come up with what I thought was a good amount of money, but that won't put a dent into the final number. We didn't want our kids having a ton of debt coming out of college. We obviously knew they would have some but for 2 of them now it is going to be costly. Yes they can decide on a different school, but 1 has a specialized major that is only offered by 20 schools so he is kinda stuck.

Part of this is me not understanding what efc really is/was. I thought it was exactly what it says. I know we aren't alone but it still sucks.

 

[otello]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/are-prestigious-private-colleges-worth-the-cost-1425271052?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_Third

 

[otello]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

Do you view all of them equally?

 

[Shirtless]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Is my EFC a combined number or is it per child since I filled out 3? Please say combined.

EFC is per child. Don't think of it as your EFC. Think of it as the student's EFC. Since you have three students, each one has their own EFC (presumably the same).

 

[Shirtless]

Do colleges care about the writing part of the SAT at all?

It would depend on the college I suppose, but I can't imagine why they would not. Mine certainly did.

 

[Shirtless]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

Taking off my college admissions hat, I would recommend that you make this decision without considering college admissions. It sounds like both are excellent options and could provide a great education for your daughter. Do what you think is best for her and the college piece will fall into place by itself.

Off the top of my head, I imagine the price of the private school might be your biggest consideration.

 

[Shirtless]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

How is your credit? Wife? Ex wife? If any are poor and you apply for a parent plus loan then get denied your kids are eligible for additional unsub loans. If you get accepted you can take the loan too, up to your determined eligibility.

Credit is good. Married, no ex. Living up in the northeast is expensive and we won't qualify for too much of a parent plus loan just because we are maxed out on our mortgage. I really don't think the fafsa is up to date on cost of living in different areas. I read an article and they basically want 47 cents on the dollar over a minimum threshold. We are able to come up with what I thought was a good amount of money, but that won't put a dent into the final number. We didn't want our kids having a ton of debt coming out of college. We obviously knew they would have some but for 2 of them now it is going to be costly. Yes they can decide on a different school, but 1 has a specialized major that is only offered by 20 schools so he is kinda stuck.

Part of this is me not understanding what efc really is/was. I thought it was exactly what it says. I know we aren't alone but it still sucks.

EFC is the expected family contribution towards the student's educational costs. From the school's perspective, total cost of attendance - estimated family contribution = maximum amount of aid that can be provided (unless something like a full athletic scholarship comes into play). But an EFC is far from what most people would consider fair. In general it's a humongous amount of money that can't possibly be met reasonably. Also, depending on the school, they're actually under no obligation to meet the maximum amount of aid that can be provided. It's just a reference number.

A lot of private schools also require a CSS profile because they know that the EFC can't accurately gauge a family's finances. Are any of your kids considering such a school? If so, you will have to complete a CSS profile before the school offers a financial aid package.

 

[James Daulton]

Do colleges care about the writing part of the SAT at all?

It would depend on the college I suppose, but I can't imagine why they would not. Mine certainly did.

Are you seeing higher and higher SAT scores each year?

 

[bigbottom]

All else being equal, does a child's participation in the Duke TIP program hold any relevance?

 

[The_Man]

All else being equal, does a child's participation in the Duke TIP program hold any relevance?

Something like Duke TIP or Johns Hopkins' CTY program don't mean much just by themselves - to get accepted, it's an indication that your kids has high standardized test scores and/or GPA, but those things will be borne out by the official transcript and Score Report, which are 2 of the first things colleges look at. Where something like TIP makes a difference is in filling out your kid's storyline. If he/she is an aspiring biologist, and has done some cool biology stuff in high school, and one of their recommendation letters is from the biology teacher, and they took an advanced biology program at TIP that gave them a great experience they can tie into their essay, than it can be relevant. But it's not a primary factor.

Of the 1900 colleges and universities in the country, 1550 admit more than 75% of applicants. Another 350 admit between 40 and 75% of applicants. It's about 100 schools that admit less than 40% of applicants - of course, those are the schools where all the hype and attention are.

When it comes to these 100, the deciding factors in order (more or less) are:

GPA and curriculum taken (was it the most challenging offered in the applicant's high school?)

Recommendations

Standardized Test Scores

Essay, extra-curriculars, and all that other stuff

 

[James Daulton]

All else being equal, does a child's participation in the Duke TIP program hold any relevance?

Something like Duke TIP or Johns Hopkins' CTY program don't mean much just by themselves - to get accepted, it's an indication that your kids has high standardized test scores and/or GPA, but those things will be borne out by the official transcript and Score Report, which are 2 of the first things colleges look at. Where something like TIP makes a difference is in filling out your kid's storyline. If he/she is an aspiring biologist, and has done some cool biology stuff in high school, and one of their recommendation letters is from the biology teacher, and they took an advanced biology program at TIP that gave them a great experience they can tie into their essay, than it can be relevant. But it's not a primary factor.

Of the 1900 colleges and universities in the country, 1550 admit more than 75% of applicants. Another 350 admit between 40 and 75% of applicants. It's about 100 schools that admit less than 40% of applicants - of course, those are the schools where all the hype and attention are.

When it comes to these 100, the deciding factors in order (more or less) are:

GPA and curriculum taken (was it the most challenging offered in the applicant's high school?)

Recommendations

Standardized Test Scores

Essay, extra-curriculars, and all that other stuff

I would bet that standarized test scores are at the very least the 2nd most important criteria, and maybe the 1st.

 

[otello]

Great stats there.

 

[SoBeDad]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

How is your credit? Wife? Ex wife? If any are poor and you apply for a parent plus loan then get denied your kids are eligible for additional unsub loans. If you get accepted you can take the loan too, up to your determined eligibility.

Credit is good. Married, no ex. Living up in the northeast is expensive and we won't qualify for too much of a parent plus loan just because we are maxed out on our mortgage. I really don't think the fafsa is up to date on cost of living in different areas. I read an article and they basically want 47 cents on the dollar over a minimum threshold. We are able to come up with what I thought was a good amount of money, but that won't put a dent into the final number. We didn't want our kids having a ton of debt coming out of college. We obviously knew they would have some but for 2 of them now it is going to be costly. Yes they can decide on a different school, but 1 has a specialized major that is only offered by 20 schools so he is kinda stuck.

Part of this is me not understanding what efc really is/was. I thought it was exactly what it says. I know we aren't alone but it still sucks.

Unless they're accepted into a real special school, the cost needs to be a consideration. Even for the kid with a specialized major, consider a big public university. Most of them have a diverse curriculum. One advantage of living in Florida is the low cost of public universities - the UF, a top 50 university (USNWR) has tuition and fees of $6,310 for the 2015-2016 school year. And most students good enough to be accepted into UF and FSU are getting a few thousand $$ in Bright Future grants.

 

[ffjunk]

Yes. Triplets. One got a scholarship for crew, one has already got in to 2 colleges but not his first choice yet. His sat's have to come up a little. The third hasn't made up his mind on which school he wants to go to. Is the FAFSA hard to fill out?

It's annoying, but not difficult.

A caveat is that it's super old-fashioned in what it assumes family structures are. Modern families (e.g., both parents divorced and remarried or something) sometimes have trouble fitting round pegs into square holes. But regardless of what your circumstances are, guaranteed the FAFSA has encountered it and has some kind of work around.

Feel like I've been kicked repeatedly in the balls. The FAFSA EFC- Expected Family Contribution - is anything but that. I expected to pay my expected family contribution for each of my 3 going to college. Not so fast. Small subsidized and even smaller unsubsidized loans and thats it. No financial aid.

How is your credit? Wife? Ex wife? If any are poor and you apply for a parent plus loan then get denied your kids are eligible for additional unsub loans. If you get accepted you can take the loan too, up to your determined eligibility.

Credit is good. Married, no ex. Living up in the northeast is expensive and we won't qualify for too much of a parent plus loan just because we are maxed out on our mortgage. I really don't think the fafsa is up to date on cost of living in different areas. I read an article and they basically want 47 cents on the dollar over a minimum threshold. We are able to come up with what I thought was a good amount of money, but that won't put a dent into the final number. We didn't want our kids having a ton of debt coming out of college. We obviously knew they would have some but for 2 of them now it is going to be costly. Yes they can decide on a different school, but 1 has a specialized major that is only offered by 20 schools so he is kinda stuck.

Part of this is me not understanding what efc really is/was. I thought it was exactly what it says. I know we aren't alone but it still sucks.

EFC is the expected family contribution towards the student's educational costs. From the school's perspective, total cost of attendance - estimated family contribution = maximum amount of aid that can be provided (unless something like a full athletic scholarship comes into play). But an EFC is far from what most people would consider fair. In general it's a humongous amount of money that can't possibly be met reasonably. Also, depending on the school, they're actually under no obligation to meet the maximum amount of aid that can be provided. It's just a reference number.

A lot of private schools also require a CSS profile because they know that the EFC can't accurately gauge a family's finances. Are any of your kids considering such a school? If so, you will have to complete a CSS profile before the school offers a financial aid package.

The bolded is what happened to me. For example, say the cost of the school is 38k and our EFC was 15000 per kid. With small subsidized loan of 3000 and unsub loan of 2000 there is now 33k left. If we use the EFC of 15000 that would leave 18k left in tuition. But the schools are saying that 15000 efc means we do not qualify for anything else and they aren't even considered for grants. I understand not covering it full, but nothing seemed shocking. Not crying poverty etiher as we have a good amount ready for college, but now we are left scrambling.

Was also told that the EFC cutoff for the pell grants is 5600. Running the numbers in the fafsa 4caster would have us on the borderline poverty level just to get to the 5600 cutoff. Also only 1 school choice was CSS. Didn't even bother because that school tuiton was over 50k and wasn't on top of the list.

 

[The_Man]

This is the (upper) middle class squeeze - both for you, and for the schools. You're not poor enough to get huge need-based financial aid. But you're not rich enough to just write a check for $38k for four years. Meanwhile, the college recognizes you should't be expected to pay the full sticker price, but they aren't rich enough to provide you all the aid they, themselves, have said your incomes makes you eligible to receive. These are the colleges that are facing a bubble - why will families continue to take out huge loans to pay $38k per year, when in-state alternatives cost less than half, and have demonstrably similar outcomes for their graduates?

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

I'm a high school math teacher. I've heard that all applications get insta-sorted into 3 piles based on ACT/SAT scores: 1) In. 2) Out. 3) Investigate further. So with a certain score, you're in almost no matter what, and if you don't meet a certain minimum, then nothing else really matters. In the middle is where the other things come into play. Is this true?I've heard/read that if a student takes the ACT multiple times, that colleges will take their highest score in each subject and give them a new composite. True?Thanks!

At my school that did not happen. Every application was read regardless of test scores. What you're describing sounds like it would be more prevalent at a large public institution with less resources devoted to admissions. I can't give you the inside scoop from those places, however.Each school's standardized test policy differs. Most will take the highest score. Of those, some might take the highest individual sections and create a highest score. Some will only take the highest composite from one individual test. If you're uncertain, call the school's admissions office.

A number of state schools have a formula that sets the threshold for admittance. It's different every year at every school, but it's typically SAT*x (or ACT*y) + normalized GPA*z.

 

[chet]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

Do you view all of them equally?

No--they're completely different experiences. One will be a typical American HS experience with a class size of 1100+ and the other will have a class size of ~40. Of course, as Shirtless said, the most important consideration is what my daughter wants and what's best for her.

 

[Shirtless]

Do colleges care about the writing part of the SAT at all?

It would depend on the college I suppose, but I can't imagine why they would not. Mine certainly did.

Are you seeing higher and higher SAT scores each year?

The SAT is a standardized test, so it's norm'd to prevent this from occurring. If it does occur over a long period of time, it becomes recalibrated, which is what happened two decades ago or so.

 

[Shirtless]

All else being equal, does a child's participation in the Duke TIP program hold any relevance?

Everything holds some relevance. Duke TIP would be an added activity, but not a game breaker. Very little on the application is considered a game breaker.

 

[Shirtless]

This is the (upper) middle class squeeze - both for you, and for the schools. You're not poor enough to get huge need-based financial aid. But you're not rich enough to just write a check for $38k for four years. Meanwhile, the college recognizes you should't be expected to pay the full sticker price, but they aren't rich enough to provide you all the aid they, themselves, have said your incomes makes you eligible to receive. These are the colleges that are facing a bubble - why will families continue to take out huge loans to pay $38k per year, when in-state alternatives cost less than half, and have demonstrably similar outcomes for their graduates?

I would argue the idea of a middle class squeeze in terms of college finances is a myth. The only need-based [non-loan] financial aid available at the federal level is a Pell Grant worth, at most, <$6,000. That's hardly huge. It's also a sliding scale, so it's not like Kid A gets the full amount and Kid B gets nothing because Kid B's family makes $1 more than Kid A's family and that puts them over the threshold. In that case, Kid A would receive a few cents of aid and Kid B would receive nothing.

Everyone except the uber wealthy are squeezed, with the squeeze becoming tighter the more disadvantaged a family is, regardless of need-based aid.

 

[otello]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

Do you view all of them equally?

No--they're completely different experiences. One will be a typical American HS experience with a class size of 1100+ and the other will have a class size of ~40. Of course, as Shirtless said, the most important consideration is what my daughter wants and what's best for her.

I was referring to the selective enrollment CPS schools, and if she had a choice there.

 

[The_Man]

Admissions rates for the most selective schools in the country for the college Class of 2019. What's really staggering is that the Early Action/Early Decision rates are much higher, as that is when recruited athletes and a lot of other "hooked" students are admitted. Harvard, for example, accepted about 16% of its Early Action candidates, meaning their acceptance rate for students who applied regular admission was 2.88%.

1) Stanford - 5.05%
2) Harvard University — 5.9%
3) Columbia 6.1%
4) Yale University — 6.49%
5) Princeton University — 6.99%
6) UChicago - 7.8%
7) MIT - 8.0%
8) Brown University — 8.49%
9) University of Pennsylvania — 9.9%
10) Dartmouth College — 10.3%
11) Cornell University — 14.9%

My kid is a junior, so the process is beginning in earnest for him now. His school has a great college counselor, who tells my son that his class rank, GPA and standardized test scores have him in the running for the schools on this list. But my son just saw this year's seniors - except for a couple of recruited athletes and 1 kid who get in early to Penn - get totally shut out of these schools. It was definitely a reality check, and has him starting to devote more attention to schools a little farther down the pecking order, so that's good. What's bad is that he is now a little apprehensive about even applying. The reality is he's either going to have to get into one of the schools with very generous financial aid (that cap tuition at 10% of income making under $150K) or get merit aid at a less competitive school. There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

 

[James Daulton]

Admissions rates for the most selective schools in the country for the college Class of 2019. What's really staggering is that the Early Action/Early Decision rates are much higher, as that is when recruited athletes and a lot of other "hooked" students are admitted. Harvard, for example, accepted about 16% of its Early Action candidates, meaning their acceptance rate for students who applied regular admission was 2.88%.

1) Stanford - 5.05%

2) Harvard University — 5.9%

3) Columbia 6.1%

4) Yale University — 6.49%

5) Princeton University — 6.99%

6) UChicago - 7.8%

7) MIT - 8.0%

8) Brown University — 8.49%

9) University of Pennsylvania — 9.9%

10) Dartmouth College — 10.3%

11) Cornell University — 14.9%

My kid is a junior, so the process is beginning in earnest for him now. His school has a great college counselor, who tells my son that his class rank, GPA and standardized test scores have him in the running for the schools on this list. But my son just saw this year's seniors - except for a couple of recruited athletes and 1 kid who get in early to Penn - get totally shut out of these schools. It was definitely a reality check, and has him starting to devote more attention to schools a little farther down the pecking order, so that's good. What's bad is that he is now a little apprehensive about even applying. The reality is he's either going to have to get into one of the schools with very generous financial aid (that cap tuition at 10% of income making under $150K) or get merit aid at a less competitive school. There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

Regionally for you, Hopkins, UVA, and Duke are all terrific schools. Hell, Maryland is also really good (although a tier or two down for sure) and I'd bet he'd get almost a ton of money to go there (if he's thinking about applying for the schools on that list).

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

I think that's probably smart, but why are you saying "we" here? Wouldn't it be his debt to worry about, not yours?

 

[chet]

My daughter (unexpectedly) was admitted to a selective enrollment HS in Chicago. We now have to decide if she should stay at her small private French school and pursue a baccalaureate or IB degree or enter the huge (4500 student) public HS with amazing facilities. Any thoughts?

Do you view all of them equally?

No--they're completely different experiences. One will be a typical American HS experience with a class size of 1100+ and the other will have a class size of ~40. Of course, as Shirtless said, the most important consideration is what my daughter wants and what's best for her.

I was referring to the selective enrollment CPS schools, and if she had a choice there.

She kind of had a choice in that she got into her first choice Lane Tech and then also was accepted to the Lincoln IB program--both CPS options. She didn't really consider the Lincoln IB program even though it has a fantastic rep. The choice was between Lane and her current school and more than likely, she will stay at the small private school as she's most comfortable there.

 

[chet]

We just found out that 4 kids from the graduating class of ~25 were accepted into a joint Columbia/Sciences Po program. Only 40 kids worldwide get into that program. Sciences Po is one of the top schools in France.

 

[The_Man]

There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

I think that's probably smart, but why are you saying "we" here? Wouldn't it be his debt to worry about, not yours?

Eh, that's still kind of unclear, honestly. But my wife and I are pretty committed to limiting the amount of undergrad debt our kids take on to $4 or 5K per year at most, hopefully a lot less. Grad school can be all theirs to pay for.

I see a big part of our role in all this as helping him make an informed financial decision. Just because schools are willing (and even encourage) kids/families to incur huge debt, it obviously doesn't make it right. It's hard for kids to have that perspective, especially if they're fallen in love with a "dream school." UVA is definitely on his list, though it would probably be much more expensive than the "need-blind" schools, as they don't offer nearly as much financial aid. Hopkins is out, just because he doesn't want to go to college 3 miles from home (which I'm good with) and Duke is definitely a consideration (as are Georgetown, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern) but they are not much less selective than the schools listed above.

It's still early days for his search, but we are definitely making cost (not the sticker price, but what it would cost our family to send him) a consideration of every school we look at. No point in getting him excited about something that we could never afford.

 

[James Daulton]

There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

I think that's probably smart, but why are you saying "we" here? Wouldn't it be his debt to worry about, not yours?

Eh, that's still kind of unclear, honestly. But my wife and I are pretty committed to limiting the amount of undergrad debt our kids take on to $4 or 5K per year at most, hopefully a lot less. Grad school can be all theirs to pay for.

I see a big part of our role in all this as helping him make an informed financial decision. Just because schools are willing (and even encourage) kids/families to incur huge debt, it obviously doesn't make it right. It's hard for kids to have that perspective, especially if they're fallen in love with a "dream school." UVA is definitely on his list, though it would probably be much more expensive than the "need-blind" schools, as they don't offer nearly as much financial aid. Hopkins is out, just because he doesn't want to go to college 3 miles from home (which I'm good with) and Duke is definitely a consideration (as are Georgetown, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern) but they are not much less selective than the schools listed above.

It's still early days for his search, but we are definitely making cost (not the sticker price, but what it would cost our family to send him) a consideration of every school we look at. No point in getting him excited about something that we could never afford.

What about the Terps????

 

[The_Man]

There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

I think that's probably smart, but why are you saying "we" here? Wouldn't it be his debt to worry about, not yours?

Eh, that's still kind of unclear, honestly. But my wife and I are pretty committed to limiting the amount of undergrad debt our kids take on to $4 or 5K per year at most, hopefully a lot less. Grad school can be all theirs to pay for.

I see a big part of our role in all this as helping him make an informed financial decision. Just because schools are willing (and even encourage) kids/families to incur huge debt, it obviously doesn't make it right. It's hard for kids to have that perspective, especially if they're fallen in love with a "dream school." UVA is definitely on his list, though it would probably be much more expensive than the "need-blind" schools, as they don't offer nearly as much financial aid. Hopkins is out, just because he doesn't want to go to college 3 miles from home (which I'm good with) and Duke is definitely a consideration (as are Georgetown, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern) but they are not much less selective than the schools listed above.

It's still early days for his search, but we are definitely making cost (not the sticker price, but what it would cost our family to send him) a consideration of every school we look at. No point in getting him excited about something that we could never afford.

What about the Terps????

Anything's possible, but it's not high on his list right now. He wants a school with about 5,000 undergrads (and an undergraduate focus), in or near a city, and "not too fratty." Big time college sports don't really matter. His current school - which he likes a lot - is a little heavy on the lax bros and I think he's curious about a different kind of environment.

 

[James Daulton]

There's just no way we're going to rack up $100k+ of debt for an undergraduate degree.

I think that's probably smart, but why are you saying "we" here? Wouldn't it be his debt to worry about, not yours?

Eh, that's still kind of unclear, honestly. But my wife and I are pretty committed to limiting the amount of undergrad debt our kids take on to $4 or 5K per year at most, hopefully a lot less. Grad school can be all theirs to pay for.

I see a big part of our role in all this as helping him make an informed financial decision. Just because schools are willing (and even encourage) kids/families to incur huge debt, it obviously doesn't make it right. It's hard for kids to have that perspective, especially if they're fallen in love with a "dream school." UVA is definitely on his list, though it would probably be much more expensive than the "need-blind" schools, as they don't offer nearly as much financial aid. Hopkins is out, just because he doesn't want to go to college 3 miles from home (which I'm good with) and Duke is definitely a consideration (as are Georgetown, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern) but they are not much less selective than the schools listed above.

It's still early days for his search, but we are definitely making cost (not the sticker price, but what it would cost our family to send him) a consideration of every school we look at. No point in getting him excited about something that we could never afford.

What about the Terps????

Anything's possible, but it's not high on his list right now. He wants a school with about 5,000 undergrads (and an undergraduate focus), in or near a city, and "not too fratty." Big time college sports don't really matter. His current school - which he likes a lot - is a little heavy on the lax bros and I think he's curious about a different kind of environment.

lol, my kids (son/daughter) also seem to hate lax brahs and brahettes.

 

[bigbottom]

Thought this was a pretty good read. My kid is only in 7th grade, and Ivies have already crept into the conversation. It's absurd.

Parents: let Harvard goAs a former admissions officer for two "elite" schools -- one Ivy and one West Coast Ivy-equivalent -- I am in a unique position to offer some insights for parents that may be of help in raising healthful teens. Exasperated as much by the reaction to a couple of recent teen suicides as I am to the acts themselves, I offer my views here not because I'm an expert in suicide-prevention: I'm not. I offer this post because we're all looking for some way to help our community's kids. My Facebook feed upsets me when people surmise that these suicides happened because of mental illness, or tiger parents, or school stress, or, or, or ... because we just. don't. know. I don't think any family from the last suicide cluster came forward with a definitive reason, and I doubt anyone did now. We don't know what drove these kids to take their lives -- but we do know what's hurting our kids now. In fact, this local teen, Martha Cabot, sums it up pretty well: "Parents, calm down."

I want to tell every parent reading this post that you need to assume, right now, that your child is not getting into Harvard no matter what he or she does. (And no, he's not getting into Stanford either, or Yale, or Dartmouth, or MIT. Probably not UC Berkeley either. No, I'm not kidding.) Your kid isn't getting into the college you think he is.

What? So-and-so's child is at Princeton right now? and got what on his SATs? and did those activities? Hmmm. Interesting. Sure, you can prove me wrong with some examples. And I can prove myself right with a hundred more. Stanford's rate of admission was below 5% last year. Do the math.

In the spirit of "I want to do something," I offer below some Q & A that I hope y'all read and take to heart. These are real questions asked by real parents of real kids I know within the past year. I didn't answer these questions at the time exactly like I did below, but I answer them here and now based on a combination of my expertise in admissions (noting that nothing I say here should be construed as official advice or information given on behalf of any school) as well as my experience as a community leader and parent.

And be forewarned: I'm going to be a bit of a wise-###, 'cause we all need to calm down like Martha says, which also means "lighten up" in my book.

But also, I promise a reward at the end: questions that I wish people would ask me instead. And I think -- I hope -- it's some valuable stuff.

Q - freshman parent: "My child is taking honors math. Homework is three hours per night. If I ask for her to be pulled out of honors math, am I killing her chances of going to Stanford someday?

A - if your 9th grader has three hours of homework in one night for one subject, I call that a problem. This isn't a college admissions question; it's a question of time management. Your kid has, what, five, six academic subjects? Last I checked, there aren't 18 hours/night to do homework. Call the teacher. Call the school. Call me crazy, but don't put your kid in classes like that. Three hours of homework total in one night is a lot. WTH?

Q - sophomore parent: "My son is getting a B in English. What can I do to salvage the situation so that he still has a shot at the Ivies? Would it help to send him on something like an exotic summer service trip? Does that kind of stuff offset the grade?"

A - I note you asked how you can salvage the situation. You can't. Do you know why? You're not the student. Let me repeat that: You're. Not. The. Student. It's not your job. Your kid's grade is your kid's job, and, if it needs to be "salvaged," your kid has to do it. As for sending your kid to Timbuktu to milk one-eyed yaks for orphan food, Imma just roll my eyes at that and salvage myself from answering.

Q - junior parent - "So how much do grades matter? Do kids with Bs still get into the Ivies?"

A - grades matter. And kids with Bs still get into the Ivies. But your kid probably won't, because have you seen admissions statistics? They're dire. Let's keep it real.

Q - senior parent - "My kid is applying to 19 colleges."

A - okay, that wasn't even a question, but excuse me while I go scream into a pillow and maybe vomit.

Q - junior parent - "I had to sign a form to let my son take more than the recommended number of APs, but I had to do it because he needs to stay competitive."

A - that also wasn't a question, that was an excuse. Limits exist for a reason. And let's be honest here "he needs to stay competitive" is English for "I'm competing with every other parent because if my kid gets into Harvard I Win." If you're bragging about how hard your kid is working, preface it by saying "I'm making my child suffer on purpose." Let's all be honest here.

Q - freshman parent - "How many APs does a kid need to take to get into Yale? I mean, he could end up with 12 or 15 depending, but I'm hearing some kids have 22. What's a good target number?"

A - a good target number is zero, because your kid isn't getting into Yale. Seriously, did you not get this memo yet?

Q - I don't think I put pressure on my kid! Do you think I am?

A - Well, you do wear that Harvard sweatshirt around a lot, and your house is flying the Harvard flag (literally). You might want to think about toning it down so that you don't have to full-scale remodel when your child doesn't get in.

Okay, enough of the joking around; my point is made. (And I am not joking: those are questions that I am asked on a pretty routine basis.)

Here is what I wish parents would ask:

Q - how much sleep does my teen need each night?

A - at minimum, teens need nine hours per night of sleep for optimal health. (I'm not a sleep expert either, but I trust the Mayo Clinic.)

Q - so how much homework does that leave time for?

A - if school lets out at 3, and your kid needs to get up at 7 am, let's see ... that means he needs to go to bed at 10 pm, so that leaves 7 hours to do a sport or other after school activity, eat dinner, hopefully hang out a little, and do homework.

Q - my kid has more homework than 7 hours' worth, so what do I do?

A - act up. Call teachers. Bug the school. And if all of that fails, send your kid to bed anyway, and tell him you'll love him even when his teacher marks him down for unfinished work. You may be surprised what happens when you call a teacher and say "my son worked on this for two hours and still couldn't finish, so I sent him to bed." Oftentimes, it's a reality check the teacher needs and welcomes.

Q - my kid won't go to bed at 10 even if his homework is finished. That's too early.

A - take away all of his electronics at 9:55 p.m. and charge them in your bedroom. Disallow screen time; remember, you set the rules of your house. If you say to go to bed at 10, your kid had better go to bed at 10. You're the boss. This is no different from when they're 2 and you're forcing a nap; your child needs rest, and if they learn while still in high school how to take care of themselves with proper sleeping habits, they'll be more successful when they do go away to school.

Q - everyone is signing forms to allow their kids to take more APs than are allowed. What do I do?

A - don't sign the form. See above. You're the boss. And while I'd like to assure you that taking two fewer APs isn't going to make an admissions difference, I can't do that. With so many schools having wee little admissions rates, nobody can. It's kind of a crap shoot. But kids taking beyond the recommended amount of APs doesn't end well. They have too much work, get too little sleep, and usually still don't get into Ivies. So it's still not worth it.

Q - where should my kid go to college if he's interested in X?

A - this varies, but I do wish that people would approach me to engage in meaningful discussion over college selection. Once, I appalled a parent who said her daughter is interested in sports journalism by suggesting U Florida, which remains highly regarded in that field. "A state school?" the mom repeated in utter shock. Let's all be open-minded here. There are a lot of colleges. And some of the best schools in subjects in which your kid's interested may not be Ivies. Keep open minds and create a list with a range of possibilities and options -- all of which your kid would love to attend if admitted.

Q - how much do grades and scores matter?

A - they matter, of course they do. But they're not all that matter. Schools could fill with perfect SAT scores and perfect grades, but they don't. If you want to see how your child measures up to any school, schools often publish ranges of scores and grades accepted.

Q - how do I motivate my child to get straight A's? (I wish, actually, the question was: how do I set reasonable academic expectations for my child?)

A - you don't. Encourage your child to do his or her best work. Check in often to feel out how much and how well they're learning. Offer support if your child is struggling. And when your child gets a B, C, or D -- or even if he fails -- don't overreact. Review mistakes. Ask the child to fix them, even if it's not for credit. Ask how he feels about his performance and what he might do differently next time. Never express disappointment, but it's okay to encourage improvement. There's a line, and you know it. Expecting A's is pressure. Expecting learning is awesome.

Q - my kid has perfect grades and scores. Doesn't that guarantee admission?

A - nope. Unfortunately, perfection is not so rare these days, especially in competitive school districts where GPAs exceed 4.0 because of APs or IBs. In truth, I'm pretty sure Harvard could fill with students with perfect SATs and 4.0s. It doesn't. Your kid being academically strong certainly matters, but numbers aren't all that matters. Perfection isn't a worthy aim, and it doesn't guarantee anything.

Q - I attended an Ivy. Doesn't this mean my kid is more likely to get in? Why shouldn't I hope for the same as I had for my kid?

A - it's a different world. Admissions statistics when you attended were more favorable to admission, and it was easier to get in without being perfect and absent a resume of accomplishments. There are plenty of practically perfect in every way "legacy" kids getting rejected from every Ivy. I hold an Ivy League graduate degree (my undergraduate degree is not), and what I tell my kids is that if they really want to attend an Ivy, there's always graduate school.

But there's another problem with this question: "shouldn't I hope for the same as I had for my kid?" Nope. You shouldn't hope for your kid to live your life. You shouldn't assume that because you went to Harvard, your kid has to measure up to that standard. Some of the most successful people I know here in Silicon Valley didn't go to Harvard, didn't go to college "on-time" even, or even didn't finish or didn't go. If you are a success who attended Harvard, Harvard doesn't get credit for your success. You do. Making the point to your child that you're a success because you love what you do and are knowledgeable in your field is more valuable than a credential from your school. (And if you don't love what you do ... are you really setting a good example for your child? does that have anything to do with your alma mater?)

Q - so many schools aren't accessible, including the UCs, even for kids who seem to have a good profile. What do I do to make sure that my kid gets in somewhere?

A - you don't do anything. Your kid needs to work with her school's college counselors to compile a realistic list of colleges to which to apply -- as well as other options. Sure, they can reach for some unlikely goals (e.g., Harvard); but there should be some on the list that are more sure bets than not (non-UC/other state schools, for example). Don't call these "safety schools." Your kid should be happy to attend any college on the list and should have compiled the list with their interests in mind: large or small? urban or rural? specific programs? And encouraging exploration of gap years, national service programs, etc. is a good idea too. Telling them that they don't need to go to college immediately (that you are flexible in the timing) helps to offset college rejections better than anything. They need to know this isn't a one-shot deal.

Q - what should my kid to do have the best shot at admission to a good school?

A - he should engage with his learning, do some things outside of school that he enjoys, and write an application that reflects who he is as a person, honestly (what he wants to say -- not what he thinks admissions officers want to hear). There is no cheat-sheet checklist of things that, if your kid does them, will garner admission assuredly. There are kids at Harvard who've done it all and kids who've done a lot less but are just kinda awesome kids. There's no secret sauce other than what's already in your kid.

Q - I didn't take your advice, and my kid still got into Berkeley. Are you often proven wrong?

A - sometimes, and happily so. Congratulations! Of course some kids still get into great schools. I'd be congratulating your kid just as much if she was about to begin attending Foothill Community College, though, or taking a gap year. Still -- your child certainly worked hard for that or for any college admission, and that deserves a big "hurrah!"

Q - how do I take pressure off of my kid?

A - don't tell them from the day they're born that Harvard is the best school, because, when he doesn't get into Harvard, he'll think he failed. Tell them all along that the best plan for them is the one that feels good -- maybe a gap year, maybe even working for a few years before college, as it's widely known that the best age to attend college is 26. If they do plan to go straight through school, encourage a good fit: an environment in which they want to live and learn for four years (or more -- college doesn't have to be completed in four years). Tell them that there are lots of options. And don't pin your own hopes and dreams to them. It's not your life, it's your kid's life -- and make sure she knows that you're proud of her no matter what.

If you want your child to be successful -- we all do! -- define success without attaching it to an outcome. Success doesn't mean that your child gets certain grades, scores, or college admissions. There is no "result" that guarantees success, or even happiness for that matter. For me, success is my kids thriving in a learning environment, being challenged but not made miserable, and making choices that help them to achieve their goals. But most of all, success is their self-motivation and self-acccountability absent my pressure. That carries over to the work force more than any grades ever will.

We can't tell our kids enough that we love them just as they are, and that we don't expect perfection. In fact, we don't even expect anything close. We need to tell them that when they screw up, we're there without judgement and with nothing but loving guidance and acceptance. We need to tell them that our expectation is for them to live fulfilling lives and that there is no achievement objective correlated with that. We need to tell them that we care that they're learning, and that grades don't matter as much as their engagement with the subject matter and how they feel about their performance. We need to accept that sometimes them doing their best is, actually, getting a C. We need to stop overbooking them for afterschool activities. We need to lower our expectations for academic performance. We need to make them sleep. We need to let them be children. We need to stop competing through them.

We need to hold our kids tightly, tell them we accept them as-is, will love them whatever happens in their lives, and then, collectively...

we need to let Harvard go.

***

Post-publication note: This posts seems to have reached a lot of people who have a lot of strong reactions to it. I think the comment that reached me most on another person's Facebook page is one from a parent who thinks I am encouraging mediocrity. The snarky part of me wants to tell the dude he's right, that I tell my kids "aim low." But the truth is, this post is far from encouraging mediocrity or "settling" for anything less than a child can feel good about achieving. As a Palo Alto parent, I am tired of our culture of 'achievement' as defined by grades, scores, college admissions, and the like. And I am unapologetic about that. I have worked with our community's teens as a coach, as a youth minister, as a mentor, and as a parent, and I encourage every kid to be their best self. That means being proud of their work, whether in the classroom, on the playing field, and/or in the world. Do I think they need to engage in competition for one of those 15 slots at Stanford (there is no fixed number, and I wouldn't know it if there were) by trying to outwit, outplay, and outlast (to borrow "Survivor" lingo)? Nope. And beyond that, there are going to be times when our kids just don't want to work hard because they're kids and continue to push boundaries. They're going to blow off studying for a test. They're going to fail something. Good. That's right -- I said good. Their mistakes teach them that actions have consequences and that their effort ties to their outcomes. We can't give them that with carrots or with sticks. They'll figure it out. They want to do well -- as they define it. (They know what's up with college admissions without us even getting involved, parents.) And the more they figure out for themselves, with no message from us other than "we take you as you are and want you to be healthy and fulfilled," the healthier our kids are going to be. I want nothing but the best for our village's kids -- for any kids-- and I stuck my neck out there with the post because I refuse to define the "best" as it has been anymore. The best for our kids is no more of them self-harming in any way, and I feel like we can alleviate some of that by changing our tone.

Thanks for reading this and for your engagement over what really isn't about college admissions but, rather, about our kids' health.

http://www.roxandroll.com/2014/11/parents-let-harvard-go.html

 

[The_Man]

That's a good posting, biggie.

I feel like my son has gotten so lucky (by some work/financial aid circumstances) to end up at the private high school he attends. It's not the top school in the area, in terms of selectivity and rigor, more of a B/B+ school than an A. At first my wife and I were a little worried about maybe selling him short, but we couldn't afford the top school.

As it turns out he has thrived, being a slightly bigger fish in a smaller pond. He's working reasonably hard, but not killing himself, and has had the opportunity to discover new interests - both because his school isn't so hyper-competitive because you have to specialize to do anything, and also because he has a little free time to try stuff. One of his best friends is at the top school, and is rapidly approaching burnout as junior year nears its conclusion.

So as he approaches his college search, I'm torn. On the one hand, it's awesome he at least as a semblance of a shot at schools like Yale or Princeton. But I keep thinking about his high school experience. Rather than go for what's perceived to be the "best" college, maybe he'd be happier at a smaller, more personalized school where he again could stand out a little more. I think Malcolm Gladwell overstates a lot of stuff, but he talks about this same issue effectively in his "David and Goliath" book.

I'm not sure. But I am thankful for his experience to date. I see parents putting extreme pressure on their kids in pursuit of the Ivy League that I don't think is healthy, and I don't think enables the kind of academic exploration and enjoyment of learning that actually makes a student interesting to the most selective schools.

 

[The_Man]

My son's school has students take a practice PSAT as sophomores, followed by the PSAT as juniors, and the SAT/ACT afterward.

When he signed up for that first PSAT, he put down our shared home email address. Ever since, I've thrown every piece of college-related email that has arrived into a separate folder.

Since the first email arrived in January of 2014 (midway through his sophomore year) through this morning, he's received 2,414 college-related emails. The volume of spam is unbelievable - obviously a lot of these schools work with one firm, as he'll receive a half-dozen emails in rapid succession, all of which are formatted exactly the same, and all of which have the exact same content, just with different school names written in.

No wonder kids don't look at their email. His college counselor told the students to create a separate email address for the schools they actually apply to, so that they know all correspondence they receive at that address will be stuff they want to see. One kid missed out on a scholarship last year because she didn't bother to open some of the college email she received because she thought it was just junk.

My son is applying to 9 schools. Over the last 2 years, he received a total of 19 unsolicited emails from those schools, and 5 of them didn't send him a single email; another sent 1. That means of the 2,414 emails colleges have sent over the last 2 years, 99.992% had zero impact.

 

[pecorino]

On the money side, if I hide all of our college savings for our newborn in a Roth IRA then we could still look needy when it comes to financial aid, is that right? I don't see the benefits of a 529 unless you max out a Roth first.

And does a child coming from a "poor" household have a smaller chance of admission?

 

[MAC_32]

On the money side, if I hide all of our college savings for our newborn in a Roth IRA then we could still look needy when it comes to financial aid, is that right? I don't see the benefits of a 529 unless you max out a Roth first.

And does a child coming from a "poor" household have a smaller chance of admission?

That may actually be a good thing.I don't think your Roth plan would work though. I believe fafsa catches that and accounts for it in your efc.

 

[Quez]

2414 spam emails about college? Just another example of how broken the college system is.

 

[2Young2BBald]

2414 spam emails about college? Just another example of how broken the college system is.

Equally as frustrating is how internet searchs point you to bull#### for pay sites disguised as the actual site you are looking for (or maybe I'm just getting old and my built in filter is out of date). Search up things like FASFA, scholarship, ACT/SAT and invariably the hits at the top are for pay and the actual sites desired have to be weeded out of the results. I had this happen again recently while trying to get my son's NCAA Clearinghouse info entered. 8 of the top 10 sites listed after search were these types of sites and only one was correct.

 

[SoBeDad]

On the money side, if I hide all of our college savings for our newborn in a Roth IRA then we could still look needy when it comes to financial aid, is that right? I don't see the benefits of a 529 unless you max out a Roth first.

And does a child coming from a "poor" household have a smaller chance of admission?

Depends on the school. Some schools are definitely need-blind in regards to admission for US applicants - MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Harvard - those with large endowments. Some very good schools with nice endowments - Tufts comes to mind - are not completely need blind for all admissions. The wiki article on need-blind admission gives more details.

Can your child claim any non-white ethnicity? That plays a role in admission at most schools - even though they deny it.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Thought this was a pretty good read. My kid is only in 7th grade, and Ivies have already crept into the conversation. It's absurd.

Q - where should my kid go to college if he's interested in X?

A - this varies, but I do wish that people would approach me to engage in meaningful discussion over college selection. Once, I appalled a parent who said her daughter is interested in sports journalism by suggesting U Florida, which remains highly regarded in that field. "A state school?" the mom repeated in utter shock. Let's all be open-minded here. There are a lot of colleges. And some of the best schools in subjects in which your kid's interested may not be Ivies. Keep open minds and create a list with a range of possibilities and options -- all of which your kid would love to attend if admitted.

While it's easy to laugh at this, there are a lot of people who feel this way. One-half of my fiancée's family comes from some pretty serious money, and most all of 15 or so of her cousins on that side went to prestigious private schools - Penn, Georgetown, Syracuse, Fordham, Marquette, and others. We've always suspected that they had a negative perception of me when we started dating because I went to a state school (she also went to the same state school). Her aunts and uncles have said, pretty much verbatim, that "our kids are too good for state schools."

Just kinda an odd mindset to have in this day and age. If you've got a brilliant kid and can afford to send him/her to an Ivy, go for it. But sometimes an Ivy or other elite private school isn't what's best for the kid. I got into an Ivy and 2 prestigious private engineering schools and turned them down for a state school. I'm thankful my parents let me make that decision.

there's really no point to this post, just saying.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Just kinda an odd mindset to have in this day and age. If you've got a brilliant kid and can afford to send him/her to an Ivy, go for it. But sometimes an Ivy or other elite private school isn't what's best for the kid. I got into an Ivy and 2 prestigious private engineering schools and turned them down for a state school. I'm thankful my parents let me make that decision.

there's really no point to this post, just saying.

Actually, there is a fantastic point and that is that these kids are smarter than we give them credit for in terms of choosing the college that is the best fit for them. I took my daughter anywhere she wanted to look as she had the grades and test scores to go just about anywhere. In the end, she picked a school where she felt the most comfortable and is thriving a year and a half later. I am not so sure this would have had the same outcome had I put my foot down and told her you have to here or this type of school. I had another parent call me crazy for not pushing her to another more prestigious school.

 

[bigbottom]

I think "fit" is a very important consideration and one that really only the kid can speak to.

 

[Nigel]

My son's school has students take a practice PSAT as sophomores, followed by the PSAT as juniors, and the SAT/ACT afterward.

When he signed up for that first PSAT, he put down our shared home email address. Ever since, I've thrown every piece of college-related email that has arrived into a separate folder.

Since the first email arrived in January of 2014 (midway through his sophomore year) through this morning, he's received 2,414 college-related emails. The volume of spam is unbelievable - obviously a lot of these schools work with one firm, as he'll receive a half-dozen emails in rapid succession, all of which are formatted exactly the same, and all of which have the exact same content, just with different school names written in.

No wonder kids don't look at their email. His college counselor told the students to create a separate email address for the schools they actually apply to, so that they know all correspondence they receive at that address will be stuff they want to see. One kid missed out on a scholarship last year because she didn't bother to open some of the college email she received because she thought it was just junk.

My son is applying to 9 schools. Over the last 2 years, he received a total of 19 unsolicited emails from those schools, and 5 of them didn't send him a single email; another sent 1. That means of the 2,414 emails colleges have sent over the last 2 years, 99.992% had zero impact.

Did he apply to BC? Based on his criteria seems like a good fit, with grandparents nearby.

 

[James Daulton]

College admittance guy, with the transition to the new SAT format in 2016, is there any point in taking the old SAT for current high school juniors?

 

[xulf]

My son's school has students take a practice PSAT as sophomores, followed by the PSAT as juniors, and the SAT/ACT afterward.

When he signed up for that first PSAT, he put down our shared home email address. Ever since, I've thrown every piece of college-related email that has arrived into a separate folder.

Since the first email arrived in January of 2014 (midway through his sophomore year) through this morning, he's received 2,414 college-related emails. The volume of spam is unbelievable - obviously a lot of these schools work with one firm, as he'll receive a half-dozen emails in rapid succession, all of which are formatted exactly the same, and all of which have the exact same content, just with different school names written in.

No wonder kids don't look at their email. His college counselor told the students to create a separate email address for the schools they actually apply to, so that they know all correspondence they receive at that address will be stuff they want to see. One kid missed out on a scholarship last year because she didn't bother to open some of the college email she received because she thought it was just junk.

My son is applying to 9 schools. Over the last 2 years, he received a total of 19 unsolicited emails from those schools, and 5 of them didn't send him a single email; another sent 1. That means of the 2,414 emails colleges have sent over the last 2 years, 99.992% had zero impact.

So they take a P-PSAT? ~20 years ago, we took the PSAT as sophomores and then I took the ACT/SAT as a junior, which allowed for another shot at it as a senior. I was already doing college related admission stuff before the senior tests were being administered and never actually took the senior tests.

 

[Instinctive]

My son's school has students take a practice PSAT as sophomores, followed by the PSAT as juniors, and the SAT/ACT afterward.

When he signed up for that first PSAT, he put down our shared home email address. Ever since, I've thrown every piece of college-related email that has arrived into a separate folder.

Since the first email arrived in January of 2014 (midway through his sophomore year) through this morning, he's received 2,414 college-related emails. The volume of spam is unbelievable - obviously a lot of these schools work with one firm, as he'll receive a half-dozen emails in rapid succession, all of which are formatted exactly the same, and all of which have the exact same content, just with different school names written in.

No wonder kids don't look at their email. His college counselor told the students to create a separate email address for the schools they actually apply to, so that they know all correspondence they receive at that address will be stuff they want to see. One kid missed out on a scholarship last year because she didn't bother to open some of the college email she received because she thought it was just junk.

My son is applying to 9 schools. Over the last 2 years, he received a total of 19 unsolicited emails from those schools, and 5 of them didn't send him a single email; another sent 1. That means of the 2,414 emails colleges have sent over the last 2 years, 99.992% had zero impact.

So they take a P-PSAT? ~20 years ago, we took the PSAT as sophomores and then I took the ACT/SAT as a junior, which allowed for another shot at it as a senior. I was already doing college related admission stuff before the senior tests were being administered and never actually took the senior tests.

I had the PSAT as a sophomore for practice, then the real PSAT in September as a junior, then a confirming SAT taken either at the end of September, October, or early December (at least those were the offered dates when I was in HS).

ETA: Also no tests senior year. And ACT taken in April of junior year.

 

[The_Man]

College admittance guy, with the transition to the new SAT format in 2016, is there any point in taking the old SAT for current high school juniors?

The only reason to take it is that the new SAT is going to be a lot more like the ACT, and there are a certain kids who do better on the SAT than ACT. There's also the fear that no one really knows if the College Board is going to get the new test exactly right in its first go-round (they've had huge, huge issues this year just with the old test) and so some people think test prep and/or scoring is going to be unreliable.

I've heard that if a kid doesn't mind giving up the 3 hours - and you don't mind spending the $ - then taking the old SAT is a free roll. If the score is good, you can keep it. But if it's not, you just throw it away and then start over fresh with the new one.

Virginia Tech has announced that they won't accept the old SAT for the Class of 2017, but they're a real outlier in that stance and are getting a lot of push back.