meh tape this year. a lot of body catching, no my ball mentality, measureables don't show up on tape, just not much edge to his game. 2012 tape looks every bit the part of a first round pick with his measureables. will be interesting to see where he goesIf the NFL passes on him in the 40-45 picks, there's a significant ding in his game somewhere (hands?). They don't pass on guys with his measurables otherwise.
yep, very underwhelming season on the field.meh tape this year. a lot of body catching, no my ball mentality, measureables don't show up on tape, just not much edge to his game. 2012 tape looks every bit the part of a first round pick with his measureables. will be interesting to see where he goesIf the NFL passes on him in the 40-45 picks, there's a significant ding in his game somewhere (hands?). They don't pass on guys with his measurables otherwise.
I was shocked with the numbers he put up at the combine. I was never all that impressed with him and have discussed it in other threads. Definitely going to be watching to see what the NFL is thinking on him with bated breath.meh tape this year. a lot of body catching, no my ball mentality, measureables don't show up on tape, just not much edge to his game. 2012 tape looks every bit the part of a first round pick with his measureables. will be interesting to see where he goesIf the NFL passes on him in the 40-45 picks, there's a significant ding in his game somewhere (hands?). They don't pass on guys with his measurables otherwise.
He moves better than Baldwin. Moncrief is a better version of Rueben Randle.Jonathan Baldwin all over again IMO. Great measurables that don't show up on the field. He makes playing WR harder than it should be.
Wouldnt say you can't fix hands but they are probably the top thing i look for in a receiver.I don't watch film at all, but I took a peek at Moncrief after the combine since I already owned him in some devy leagues. He seems to cradle the ball a lot, but the hands seemed to be there when the ball was away from his body. IMO you can't fix hands, so it'll be interesting to see how it's interpreted by the NFL.
FWIW his sophomore and junior seasons in college:How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
the QB was terrible; HS levelFWIW his sophomore and junior seasons in college:How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
2013 - 13 games, 59 catches, 938 yards, 6 TDs
2012 - 13 games, 66 catches, 979 yards, 10 TDs
Over that two year span he averaged 4.8 catches, 73.7 yards, 0.62 TDs per game.
Over a 16 game NFL season that equates to about 77 catches, 1180 yards, and 10 TDs.
That's not a huge negative in my mind. Ole Miss threw a lot and that probably helped pad his numbers, but they also played in a tough conference and had a pathetic QB.
It happens often. "Similar" H/W/S guys with limited production, for one reason or another, don't make it every year. From a similar production standpoint, Marcus Davis and Mark Harrison from last year come to mind, but they weren't even selected. Josh Morgan, Jerry Porter, Will Franklin and Kelley Washington are others that I recall that were drafted fairly high. Though not as explosive, Nick Toon is another higher profile guy that hasn't made much noise with similar production and physical metrics to Moncrief.How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
Of course players bust. Maybe it's selective memory but it seems every time we find a player to fall in love with due to his speed / size etc. but he didn't produce well on the field, he ends up disappointing. None of those guys you mention have made it big, though a few had moments. Calico is a prime example of a guy with an apparent skill set but never put it together. In college he did not have "crazy NCAA production" but was drafted high as people (myself included) excused his stats due to his QB and thought they had a great sleeper WR, he was supposed to be another TO.It happens often. "Similar" H/W/S guys with limited production, for one reason or another, don't make it every year. From a similar production standpoint, Marcus Davis and Mark Harrison from last year come to mind, but they weren't even selected. Josh Morgan, Jerry Porter, Will Franklin and Kelley Washington are others that I recall that were drafted fairly high. Though not as explosive, Nick Toon is another higher profile guy that hasn't made much noise with similar production and physical metrics to Moncrief.How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
On the flip side, there have been a ton of guys with a similar athletic profile and crazy NCAA production that didn't make it either.....Kelley Washington, Greg Little, Jon Baldwin, Johnnie Morant, Stephen Hill, Tyrone Calico, Justin McCareins, Dez White, Chad Jackson and DHB were all drafted early.
While this is undoubtedly true, it makes me cringe. I hope people don't get confused... Moncrief ≠ Green.Moncrief was overshadowed last year by a guy who has the hands to be the next Fitzgerald so I'm discounting the fact he wasn't the leading receiver. However, he did lead the team his first two years and actually improved his YPC to a very good 15.9 (career 15.2). His career numbers are very close to AJ Green's.
a better wr? One of the qb's? A stud te? An under valued rb? I like him as a dice roll late 2nd if he slips, but this clas is too deep to take him before then. If he isn't there get another h/w/s guy like Coleman or Bryant.late 1st early 2nd, what u go to lose
How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
Hopefully it didn't come across that way, simply meant that he didn't have a lack of production. Could it have been better, especially considering how he tested at the combine? Absolutely IMO.While this is undoubtedly true, it makes me cringe. I hope people don't get confused... Moncrief ≠ Green.Moncrief was overshadowed last year by a guy who has the hands to be the next Fitzgerald so I'm discounting the fact he wasn't the leading receiver. However, he did lead the team his first two years and actually improved his YPC to a very good 15.9 (career 15.2). His career numbers are very close to AJ Green's.
This part always interests me, not that DM is another Calvin but that part was similar in college.the QB was terrible; HS levelFWIW his sophomore and junior seasons in college:How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
2013 - 13 games, 59 catches, 938 yards, 6 TDs
2012 - 13 games, 66 catches, 979 yards, 10 TDs
Over that two year span he averaged 4.8 catches, 73.7 yards, 0.62 TDs per game.
Over a 16 game NFL season that equates to about 77 catches, 1180 yards, and 10 TDs.
That's not a huge negative in my mind. Ole Miss threw a lot and that probably helped pad his numbers, but they also played in a tough conference and had a pathetic QB.
Wide receiver Donte Moncrief stood on the 4.40-second 40-yard dash he was credited with at the Scouting Combine, but took part in positional drills at Ole Miss' pro day Monday. The physically gifted big-play receiver also measured in at 6-feet-2 3/8 and 219 pounds, two pounds lighter than in Indianapolis.
Moncrief posted excellent agility test numbers at the combine, including a 39.5-inch vertical jump and 132.0-inch broad jump. He is currently the No. 67 overall prospect according to NFLDraftScout.com ratings, and No. 11 among wide receivers, projected as a second- to third-round pick.
Questions remain about the strength of his route-running, which he attempted to address by going through drills Monday. While NFL.com reported representatives from only a half-dozen teams were on hand for the workout with the Rebels lacking any other sure-fire draft picks among the 18 total prospects to work out, the school said at least 25 representatives from 22 different NFL teams were at Ole Miss' Manning Center.
Moncrief's workout is important as the junior jockeys for position with the likes of Vanderbilt's Jordan Matthews, Colorado's Paul Richardson, LSU's Jarvis Landry, Clemson's Martavis Bryant and South Carolina's Bruce Ellington - who are all rated between No. 55 and 99 by NFLDraftScout.com.
Donte Moncrief, WR: Moncrief was weighed and measured (6-foot-2 3/8, 219 pounds) and did position drills only. Scouts said that he looked very, very impressive.
Is there video of these drills?Eagles coach on hand to watch Ole Miss pro day
Gil Brandt
Excerpt:
Donte Moncrief, WR: Moncrief was weighed and measured (6-foot-2 3/8, 219 pounds) and did position drills only. Scouts said that he looked very, very impressive.
I haven't found anything yet.Is there video of these drills?Eagles coach on hand to watch Ole Miss pro day
Gil Brandt
Excerpt:
Donte Moncrief, WR: Moncrief was weighed and measured (6-foot-2 3/8, 219 pounds) and did position drills only. Scouts said that he looked very, very impressive.
Calico had hands of stone.Of course players bust. Maybe it's selective memory but it seems every time we find a player to fall in love with due to his speed / size etc. but he didn't produce well on the field, he ends up disappointing. None of those guys you mention have made it big, though a few had moments. Calico is a prime example of a guy with an apparent skill set but never put it together. In college he did not have "crazy NCAA production" but was drafted high as people (myself included) excused his stats due to his QB and thought they had a great sleeper WR, he was supposed to be another TO.It happens often. "Similar" H/W/S guys with limited production, for one reason or another, don't make it every year. From a similar production standpoint, Marcus Davis and Mark Harrison from last year come to mind, but they weren't even selected. Josh Morgan, Jerry Porter, Will Franklin and Kelley Washington are others that I recall that were drafted fairly high. Though not as explosive, Nick Toon is another higher profile guy that hasn't made much noise with similar production and physical metrics to Moncrief.How often do guys with great measurables and little production despite opportunity make it big without good reasons for their lack of productivity?
On the flip side, there have been a ton of guys with a similar athletic profile and crazy NCAA production that didn't make it either.....Kelley Washington, Greg Little, Jon Baldwin, Johnnie Morant, Stephen Hill, Tyrone Calico, Justin McCareins, Dez White, Chad Jackson and DHB were all drafted early.
Moncrief actually produced better than Calico but otherwise they seem a reasonable comparison. Tyrone was slightly faster.
NFL Films' Greg Cosell stated on the Ross Tucker Podcast that he sees "style" similarities between Ole Miss WR Donte Moncrief, and Demaryius Thomas and Josh Gordon on Moncrief's college tape.
Cosell made it clear he wasn't wholeheartedly comparing Moncrief to Thomas and Gordon, but did liken their playing styles. "I really, really like this kid," Cosell said. "He's a big, physical kid who can run." Cosell also hinted he sees Moncrief as talented enough to be a "No. 1" NFL receiver. Moncrief measured 6-foot-2, 221 at February's Scouting Combine. His official forty time was 4.40.
Source: Ross Tucker Podcast
I'll take a guy who understands how to play the game over the uber- athlete every time. The NFL is loaded with great athletes. I want the guy with the "my ball" mentality, who understands how to come back for the ball and how to shield with his body, who does the little stuff right like hand catching with his thumbs together above waist level when facing the QB, but switching to little fingers together below the waist or when turned away from the QB. Those are a few of the little things that separate the quality guys.
The saying "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" has been valid for a long time with some players for a reason.
I assume you are a Bronco's fan? What was Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas out of college? They were great athletes that needed to be tought the game. You can teach the game, you can't teach athleticism. The real question may be do they have the drive to learn the game.I'll take a guy who understands how to play the game over the uber- athlete every time. The NFL is loaded with great athletes. I want the guy with the "my ball" mentality, who understands how to come back for the ball and how to shield with his body, who does the little stuff right like hand catching with his thumbs together above waist level when facing the QB, but switching to little fingers together below the waist or when turned away from the QB. Those are a few of the little things that separate the quality guys.
The saying "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" has been valid for a long time with some players for a reason.
He feels like Michael Westbrook to me.Jonathan Baldwin all over again IMO. Great measurables that don't show up on the field. He makes playing WR harder than it should be.
he could be the next Baldwin or he could be the next VJax... thats why we play the game.He feels like Michael Westbrook to me.Jonathan Baldwin all over again IMO. Great measurables that don't show up on the field. He makes playing WR harder than it should be.
He sucker punches teammates?He feels like Michael Westbrook to me.Jonathan Baldwin all over again IMO. Great measurables that don't show up on the field. He makes playing WR harder than it should be.
Nice post. He can't work all over the field, a deep threat only. He doesn't look interested in contact to me. He dances around when it's time to block and he seems to curl up before any hit or just run out of bounds. Maybe that's not much of a knock for a WR, but it turned me off. At best he's Robert Meachem in his early Saints days. Another bigger WR that plays small. His athleticism is worth being in the league. I think he's going to be a let down in the long-run. Maybe he'll be Josh Gordon/Cordarrelle Patterson-like where I underrate his athleticism and he's catching 80 yard slants for a TD every week while I'm here saying 'I don't get it' like a idiot.The NFL really isn't loaded with 220 pound WRs who can run 4.40 and jump out of the gym. There are lots of "good" athletes, but that's another level and those guys don't grow on trees. There's almost nobody out there who combines the speed and the size of Moncrief, so he's in rare company.
I don't think Moncrief is one of the best WRs in this class in terms of intangibles and WR skills. He drops too many balls, isn't particularly elusive, and just doesn't seem to have the "it" factor for working in tight spaces and making things happen. However, he's not as bad as people make him out to be. People talk about him like he's some total workout warrior with zero football skills. I don't think that's very accurate. He wasn't a dominant player in college, but he wasn't bad either. 900+ yards each of his final two seasons in something like 13 games. While he isn't consistent, he has at least flashed the ability to do a lot of the "skill" things that a WR needs to do. I've seen him make leaping catches over defenders, catch the ball away from his frame, run crisp routes to get separation, and contort his body to catch poorly thrown balls. He might not be an A+ from a skill standpoint, but he's not an F either. More like a B or B-. When you combine that with his off the charts physical qualities, it will probably be enough to achieve considerable success at the next level.
I said it earlier in this thread, but I doubt that he has the football skill or athletic skill to become a jack-of-all-trades #1 like VJax, Demaryius, or Marshall. However, I think he compares pretty favorably to guys like Torrey Smith and Mike Wallace who have flawed football skills and even flawed physical skills, but have still been able to make a pretty significant impact because they have physical traits that are hard for defenders to cope with. I think Moncrief might even be better than both of those guys in terms of his overall athleticism/skill combo. So while he doesn't warrant the Demaryius comparisons, he could still end up giving you a nice return on your investment for the late 1st-early 2nd round rookie pick he's likely to cost.
take him at 1.05 - don't spend the next ten years going " why did I pass on him for [insert future bust]??"I have the 1.04 and 1.05 dynasty picks... I feel like I either trade both to get 1.01 or I go w Beckham and Moncrief...
I really want moncrief and there's no way he gets back to me (I dont have a 2nd rnd pick) - may be a MAJOR reach all things considered... but when you want a guy, how else do you work it?
Trade down to the late 1st and you should still get him.I have the 1.04 and 1.05 dynasty picks... I feel like I either trade both to get 1.01 or I go w Beckham and Moncrief...
I really want moncrief and there's no way he gets back to me (I dont have a 2nd rnd pick) - may be a MAJOR reach all things considered... but when you want a guy, how else do you work it?
Can't. I know from a drunken night w leaguemates that there are other guys who want him as well.Trade down to the late 1st and you should still get him.I have the 1.04 and 1.05 dynasty picks... I feel like I either trade both to get 1.01 or I go w Beckham and Moncrief...
I really want moncrief and there's no way he gets back to me (I dont have a 2nd rnd pick) - may be a MAJOR reach all things considered... but when you want a guy, how else do you work it?