Free undergraduate admissions advice (1 Viewer)

[Shirtless]

My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?

Definitely not. Admissions rates at the most prestigious schools have plummeted in the past decade. We're talking less than 10% at about ten schools. And it's only going down. Those schools also have, by far, the most financial aid resources. They admit completely need-blind, which is something most other schools cannot afford to do. That might also be a reason why those public schools did not want to admit you. If they had to pay for you to come, they were less likely to want you to.

Interesting...the school I went to was Wesleyan University (which someone mentioned above) and you are correct, they do have need-blind admissions...with that said, I will never forget the day a recruit came to our hockey game, hung out with the boys and the coach was stoked. Basically said, "he is 6'2, 215, and has a 1350 SAT score...kid did not end up getting in (which honestly was a shock to everyone in the locker room, since none of us had those credentials). I went in not asking for money, as my father was quick to say, "doesn't matter what their structure is, if you apply for assistance, you are opening yourself up to problems...need blind is a neat concept, but even then (in the mid-90s) the school struggled with the fact whether it was economically feasible...my guess is that they "cheat" from time-to-time and "peak" and then make a decision.

Actually, I doubt they peek. Need blind is federally binding and taken very very seriously. Only a small number of schools claim that they are need blind, and almost all are wealthy, prestigious, private schools. However, need blind only acts as a floor, it does not act as a ceiling. Kids whose parents obviously have the potential to donate are going to receive preferential treatment.

 

[SacramentoBob]

How much leeway do you give black students?

 

[chet]

How much does varsity sport potential help for a female applicant to Harvard?

Potential is too vague of a word. All recruited athletes are evaluated by coaches who submit their own recommendations to admissions. For walk ons, having played a sport in high school and intending to play it in college will not mean very much, more like another extracurricular.

What about a girl recruited to play varsity sports? How much below the average successful applicant can her application fall?

 

[Shirtless]

How much does varsity sport potential help for a female applicant to Harvard?

Potential is too vague of a word. All recruited athletes are evaluated by coaches who submit their own recommendations to admissions. For walk ons, having played a sport in high school and intending to play it in college will not mean very much, more like another extracurricular.

What about a girl recruited to play varsity sports? How much below the average successful applicant can her application fall?

Depends on the sport and the need for her. But women's athletics in general won't be as important as men's. And athletics in the Ivy League generally isn't as important of an admissions consideration (no athletic scholarships, for example). Academic qualifications for almost all athletes will still have to be stellar.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

 

[Shirtless]

Thought I'd bump this since deadlines are looming. Good luck to all families applying.

 

[Judge Smails]

Just sent the app in for my youngest daughter for UC Santa Barbara. She has several options, already accepted at some Cal State schools, but really wants to go to Santa Barbara after seeing the experience her older sister is getting. Sure wish I went to a school like that - instead was a commuter to the concrete jungle known as Cal State LA. Somewhat of a longshot, only a 54% chance with her GPA (just under 3.8) and ACT (25). Keeping her fingers crossed

 

[njherdfan]

Just curious if the OP is going to answer these questions, but was your school need-blind in admissions? If not, how much did a candidate applying for financial aid impact the applicant's chances?

 

[Tick]

Which of these carries more weight?

-Spanish through year 5

-Spanish through year 3, Japanese through year 2

Does National Merit status matter at private schools?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Just sent the app in for my youngest daughter for UC Santa Barbara. She has several options, already accepted at some Cal State schools, but really wants to go to Santa Barbara after seeing the experience her older sister is getting. Sure wish I went to a school like that - instead was a commuter to the concrete jungle known as Cal State LA. Somewhat of a longshot, only a 54% chance with her GPA (just under 3.8) and ACT (25). Keeping her fingers crossed

If she doesn't get in, I suggest she appeal. Worked for me (not UCSB but another UC). The trick is figuring out the basis for the appeal. Senior year grades are what did it for me, at least I think.

 

[tommyboy]

Whats the point of going $50 or $100,000 in debt for a liberal arts or other similarly worthless degree?

 

[belljr]

Is it normal for scholarship links to go 9 websites deep when filling out all the information. Feels like I'm gettins spammed.

 

[Shirtless]

Just curious if the OP is going to answer these questions, but was your school need-blind in admissions? If not, how much did a candidate applying for financial aid impact the applicant's chances?

My school was need-blind. As I mentioned in a previous post, we were very serious about it. There was no peeking or swaying away from the policy.But also mentioned before, need-blind is a floor, not a ceiling. It doesn't prevent poverty from becoming a knock against you, but it still awards super wealthy families who have the capacity to donate.

 

[Shirtless]

Which of these carries more weight?-Spanish through year 5-Spanish through year 3, Japanese through year 2Does National Merit status matter at private schools?

Spanish through year 5. Always quality over quantity.National Merit status (like a semi-finalist) will never hurt. But depending on the private school you're applying to, might just be a drop in the bucket. The exception to this is if the applicant is a NMSF from a high school that rarely has NMSFs. Admissions counselors will know which schools fall into that category.

 

[Shirtless]

Is it normal for scholarship links to go 9 websites deep when filling out all the information. Feels like I'm gettins spammed.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with 3rd party scholarship applications. How did you come upon it?

 

[belljr]

Is it normal for scholarship links to go 9 websites deep when filling out all the information. Feels like I'm gettins spammed.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with 3rd party scholarship applications. How did you come upon it?

Guidance Counselor

 

[Workhorse]

My kid is just in 4th grade, but we have been saving for college, so I do have a few questions.I also went to one of those stuffy schools and found an interesting trend. I had no clue where I wanted to go to school and my father is a college professor. He figured, "apply to them all", so that is what I did...total of 17 schools. Probably 15 of those fit into two categories; small liberal arts schools in the North East (I am from NJ originally), and larger, public and private schools in the South East. This was in the early-mid 90s and I remember that it was actually easier for me to get into the private, liberal arts schools (though they were ranked a good deal higher), than for me to get into the bigger southern universities (ranked lower).With the prices of private schools over 50k now (and the state of the economy), are they pretty easy to get into compared to the public universities which are much more affordable?

Definitely not. Admissions rates at the most prestigious schools have plummeted in the past decade. We're talking less than 10% at about ten schools. And it's only going down. Those schools also have, by far, the most financial aid resources. They admit completely need-blind, which is something most other schools cannot afford to do. That might also be a reason why those public schools did not want to admit you. If they had to pay for you to come, they were less likely to want you to.

Interesting...the school I went to was Wesleyan University (which someone mentioned above) and you are correct, they do have need-blind admissions...with that said, I will never forget the day a recruit came to our hockey game, hung out with the boys and the coach was stoked. Basically said, "he is 6'2, 215, and has a 1350 SAT score...kid did not end up getting in (which honestly was a shock to everyone in the locker room, since none of us had those credentials). I went in not asking for money, as my father was quick to say, "doesn't matter what their structure is, if you apply for assistance, you are opening yourself up to problems...need blind is a neat concept, but even then (in the mid-90s) the school struggled with the fact whether it was economically feasible...my guess is that they "cheat" from time-to-time and "peak" and then make a decision.

Actually, I doubt they peek. Need blind is federally binding and taken very very seriously. Only a small number of schools claim that they are need blind, and almost all are wealthy, prestigious, private schools. However, need blind only acts as a floor, it does not act as a ceiling. Kids whose parents obviously have the potential to donate are going to receive preferential treatment.

I'm pretty sure they don't peek at all. I went to Connecticut College in the early 90s and breezed in despite being almost entirely on scholarship/grant money and loans.

 

[James Daulton]

How important is class rank? Is top 10% the standard at most good, big universities (like UVA, UNC, etc), or is top 5% really where you have to be? Assuming mid-level SATs (say 1,150 or 1,200).

 

[guderian]

Can you give us one or two factors that might surprise us with respect to what's important to admissions? Meaning--are there one or two things that can set an applicant apart?

 

[george]

Which would be better for a kid from a high school not known for its academic rigor?

3.5-3.75 GPA with a 30 ACT/1300 SAT

or

3.9-4.0 GPA with a 25 ACT/1100 SAT

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Okay - so my daughter graduates froma state school next Fall (all courses done in May, but still has student teaching in the Fall); my son starts as a freshman next Fall at the same school. We have 3 more kids behind them . Why in the hell don't we get some type of break in filing for financial aid? They don't care how many other kids you have that are or will go to college - they assume whne applying for aid that it is just that one kid. So my wife and I have a combined income that for one kid looks ike we don't need any financial aid - but we have 4 other kids. Argh! Outside of getting rid of kids is there a way around this?

 

[James Daulton]

Little help here Shirtless!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Which would be better for a kid from a high school not known for its academic rigor?

3.5-3.75 GPA with a 30 ACT/1300 SAT

or

3.9-4.0 GPA with a 25 ACT/1100 SAT

IMO

 

[Shirtless]

How important is class rank? Is top 10% the standard at most good, big universities (like UVA, UNC, etc), or is top 5% really where you have to be? Assuming mid-level SATs (say 1,150 or 1,200).

I didn't work at a large public university so I can't really speak on their behalf. Didn't some state (Texas?) advertise that it was going to automatically admit the top 10% of every school in the state? Where I worked, class rank was more of a contextualizing factor. There certainly wasn't a cut-off line if that's what you're concerned about. For instance, if an applicant came from a school that historically sent very competitive applicants, then anywhere in the top 10th percentile might be considered, and the top 4-5 students would really get a close read. On the other hand, if an applicant is applying from a school that historically did not send very competitive applicant, then I might expect him/her to be valedictorian to warrant further consideration.

 

[Instinctive]

How important is class rank? Is top 10% the standard at most good, big universities (like UVA, UNC, etc), or is top 5% really where you have to be? Assuming mid-level SATs (say 1,150 or 1,200).

I didn't work at a large public university so I can't really speak on their behalf. Didn't some state (Texas?) advertise that it was going to automatically admit the top 10% of every school in the state? Where I worked, class rank was more of a contextualizing factor. There certainly wasn't a cut-off line if that's what you're concerned about. For instance, if an applicant came from a school that historically sent very competitive applicants, then anywhere in the top 10th percentile might be considered, and the top 4-5 students would really get a close read. On the other hand, if an applicant is applying from a school that historically did not send very competitive applicant, then I might expect him/her to be valedictorian to warrant further consideration.

The state of Texas does give automatic admittance to anyone in the top 10% of their high school class to a public university. This does not mean, however, that students get into the college of their choice. UT accepts you, but not necessarily into their business school, for instance.

 

[Shirtless]

Can you give us one or two factors that might surprise us with respect to what's important to admissions? Meaning--are there one or two things that can set an applicant apart?

Not really. I mean, I could tell you that the #1 rated QB is going to really stand out. So will winners of Intel Math and Science Search. But that probably isn't news to you. Like I've said before, aside from super rare exceptions, nothing will make or break an application. A few things that I found myself being drawn to, though they didn't catapult an applicant anywhere, were work experience and a sense of groundedness. Keep in mind I was reading for a super-elite school full of rich privileged kids, and that definitely affected my perceptions. I was a little surprised at how few of them had work experience. Almost all came in with summer camps, travel, voluntourism, maybe an internship here or there, but not "waited tables at local Denny's." As a result, the ones who came in with that experience stuck with me a bit more.Similarly, a lot of applicants were really effusive when it came to describing themselves, their ambitions, and their experiences. Like every elderly home volunteer experience was mind-blowing. Every third-world travel experience changed someone's mind forever. I understand, they're 17 years old applying to college and this is how they think. But the ones that could say (and not be a depressing **** about it) that their 3 months volunteering probably didn't do much for those old folks and still communicate that they learned much from the experience got a few pluses in my mind.

 

[yellowdog]

Which would be better for a kid from a high school not known for its academic rigor?

3.5-3.75 GPA with a 30 ACT/1300 SAT

or

3.9-4.0 GPA with a 25 ACT/1100 SAT

IMO

Debatable. My daughter is a senior in HS and has maintained 4.0 throughout. She got a 26 on both of her ACT attempts. She has worked for her grades, which will be to her benefit in the future. An average to slightly above average ACT and a 4.0 GPA shows a willingness to work hard, whereas a high ACT and a 3.5 GPA may show a bit of laziness.

 

[Instinctive]

Okay - so my daughter graduates froma state school next Fall (all courses done in May, but still has student teaching in the Fall); my son starts as a freshman next Fall at the same school. We have 3 more kids behind them . Why in the hell don't we get some type of break in filing for financial aid? They don't care how many other kids you have that are or will go to college - they assume whne applying for aid that it is just that one kid. So my wife and I have a combined income that for one kid looks ike we don't need any financial aid - but we have 4 other kids. Argh! Outside of getting rid of kids is there a way around this?

My understanding is that when you have more than one kid actually in college at the same time, your aid should go up. One of my best friend's has a sister that goes to Georgetown, and when he started school, their aid more than doubled. Before that, they didn't get a ton of aid. We're looking into the same thing in my family, as next year I will be a junior and my brother will be a freshman. I don't get aid because of a scholarship, but he should get quite a bit of aid due to the fact that my parents will have two kids in school at the same time.

 

[Shirtless]

Which would be better for a kid from a high school not known for its academic rigor?3.5-3.75 GPA with a 30 ACT/1300 SATor3.9-4.0 GPA with a 25 ACT/1100 SAT

In this case, I would actually defer to an above comment and say I would look at the class rank, and probably the teacher recs.For example, if the kid is 3.5 and ranked in the 50th percentile with a 1300 SAT, I might call him lazy and unengaged. Teacher recs might corroborate that, too. On the other hand, if the kid is 3.9, top of the class, with an 1100 SAT, then I might think that the school doesn't usually produce kids above an 1100 (and I'd have stats to refer to). Certainly not the kid's fault; he/she's done everything with what's available.

 

[Shirtless]

Okay - so my daughter graduates froma state school next Fall (all courses done in May, but still has student teaching in the Fall); my son starts as a freshman next Fall at the same school. We have 3 more kids behind them . Why in the hell don't we get some type of break in filing for financial aid? They don't care how many other kids you have that are or will go to college - they assume whne applying for aid that it is just that one kid. So my wife and I have a combined income that for one kid looks ike we don't need any financial aid - but we have 4 other kids. Argh! Outside of getting rid of kids is there a way around this?

Can't really help you here. Financial aid is a separate animal from admissions. I know that the FAFSA asks for family size, and how many kids are in college. But aside from answering those questions, I'm not sure what your options are.

 

[Instinctive]

Shirtless, I know you're undergrad admissions, but I thought it would be worth asking if you have any knowledge of or experience with the grad school processes. I'm still a year out from the process, but if there's anything I should be doing ahead of time besides just researching some schools and test prep, I'd like to get a jump on it.

 

[Shirtless]

Shirtless, I know you're undergrad admissions, but I thought it would be worth asking if you have any knowledge of or experience with the grad school processes. I'm still a year out from the process, but if there's anything I should be doing ahead of time besides just researching some schools and test prep, I'd like to get a jump on it.

I went to graduate school, along with a bunch of other people here I'm sure. A lot of people could give you feedback from their personal experiences, but if you want some sort of first-hand admission information then you'd have to turn to professors, because they make those decisions. What field are you applying for?

 

[Instinctive]

Shirtless, I know you're undergrad admissions, but I thought it would be worth asking if you have any knowledge of or experience with the grad school processes. I'm still a year out from the process, but if there's anything I should be doing ahead of time besides just researching some schools and test prep, I'd like to get a jump on it.

I went to graduate school, along with a bunch of other people here I'm sure. A lot of people could give you feedback from their personal experiences, but if you want some sort of first-hand admission information then you'd have to turn to professors, because they make those decisions. What field are you applying for?

I have early acceptance to our Masters of Accountancy program for my 5th year, but I'm planning on law school. I know there's a ton of FFA lawyers, so perhaps I'll just toss up a thread when the time comes

 

[El Floppo]

Any Kindergarten Admissions people here? NYC is ####### nuts

 

[James Daulton]

How important is class rank? Is top 10% the standard at most good, big universities (like UVA, UNC, etc), or is top 5% really where you have to be? Assuming mid-level SATs (say 1,150 or 1,200).

I didn't work at a large public university so I can't really speak on their behalf. Didn't some state (Texas?) advertise that it was going to automatically admit the top 10% of every school in the state? Where I worked, class rank was more of a contextualizing factor. There certainly wasn't a cut-off line if that's what you're concerned about. For instance, if an applicant came from a school that historically sent very competitive applicants, then anywhere in the top 10th percentile might be considered, and the top 4-5 students would really get a close read. On the other hand, if an applicant is applying from a school that historically did not send very competitive applicant, then I might expect him/her to be valedictorian to warrant further consideration.

What I'm more getting at here is at competitive schools, if you have two kids with equal SATs, one kid has a 3.9 and is ranked 10th percent in his class. Another kid has a 3.6 but is ranked 5th percentile (say due to a harder class schedule). I would think class rank would be more important because that would normalize for grade inflation.

 

[wittyusername]

Great thread Shirtless - thank!

What type of consideration is given to kids who have grown up overseas? My son is graduating with very average grades: C+. B- territory, in top 30% of class, with a 1080 SAT. However he has grown up overseas attending American International schools ( K thru 12th grade) in Africa, Asia, & the Middle East. He has lived in 6 different countries, is completely bi-lingual (French & English), is very mature, and is bi-racial. Does being a minority with a diverse, world life experience offset his "average" grades & scores? How will schools admissions people look at this type of profile? TIA

 

[Tick]

Great thread Shirtless - thank!What type of consideration is given to kids who have grown up overseas? My son is graduating with very average grades: C+. B- territory, in top 30% of class, with a 1080 SAT. However he has grown up overseas attending American International schools ( K thru 12th grade) in Africa, Asia, & the Middle East. He has lived in 6 different countries, is completely bi-lingual (French & English), is very mature, and is bi-racial. Does being a minority with a diverse, world life experience offset his "average" grades & scores? How will schools admissions people look at this type of profile? TIA

This might not help with admissions, but should help tremendously with tail.

 

[wittyusername]

Great thread Shirtless - thank!

What type of consideration is given to kids who have grown up overseas? My son is graduating with very average grades: C+. B- territory, in top 30% of class, with a 1080 SAT. However he has grown up overseas attending American International schools ( K thru 12th grade) in Africa, Asia, & the Middle East. He has lived in 6 different countries, is completely bi-lingual (French & English), is very mature, and is bi-racial. Does being a minority with a diverse, world life experience offset his "average" grades & scores? How will schools admissions people look at this type of profile? TIA

This might not help with admissions, but should help tremendously with tail.

HA! Yes, this is already happening - he is 17 yrs old, a great athlete, and the Asian girls are all over him. Great to be in Thailand in High School!

 

[Phil Elliott]

ACT or SAT or both - does it matter?

 

[Shirtless]

ACT or SAT or both - does it matter?

Does not matter.

 

[Shirtless]

Great thread Shirtless - thank!What type of consideration is given to kids who have grown up overseas? My son is graduating with very average grades: C+. B- territory, in top 30% of class, with a 1080 SAT. However he has grown up overseas attending American International schools ( K thru 12th grade) in Africa, Asia, & the Middle East. He has lived in 6 different countries, is completely bi-lingual (French & English), is very mature, and is bi-racial. Does being a minority with a diverse, world life experience offset his "average" grades & scores? How will schools admissions people look at this type of profile? TIA

It doesn't help in the sense that colleges are not looking to fill a quota of bilingual students or overseas students. As with everything else, an applicant's accomplishments are looked at in the context of his/her availability of opportunities. Without trying to sound crass, it's not like your son grabbed his opportunities for himself. They came with the territory of being a member of your family. He can, however, leverage his personal experiences into creating a nice narrative of himself. He can figure out how his worldly childhood have contributed to his future aspirations, his personal outlook on life, and how those might differ from a lot of other people his age. As an application reader, I might read such an application and think the applicant could contribute a lot to the campus climate.

 

[Judge Smails]

Just sent the app in for my youngest daughter for UC Santa Barbara. She has several options, already accepted at some Cal State schools, but really wants to go to Santa Barbara after seeing the experience her older sister is getting. Sure wish I went to a school like that - instead was a commuter to the concrete jungle known as Cal State LA. Somewhat of a longshot, only a 54% chance with her GPA (just under 3.8) and ACT (25). Keeping her fingers crossed

If she doesn't get in, I suggest she appeal. Worked for me (not UCSB but another UC). The trick is figuring out the basis for the appeal. Senior year grades are what did it for me, at least I think.

I'd like to learn more about the appeal. Senior grades? Meaning that if senior grades had been factored in or not you would have been over the average GPA + SAT combined threshold? What percent of appeals result in an admission?

 

[Shirtless]

Tis the season again. Any families applying early decision/action? Happy to help.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I can speak to the engineering graduate school admissions process, if anyone is interested.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Great thread. Just brushing up to give my brothers some feedback, as one of 'em will be taking his SAT this year.

 

[chet]

Tis the season again. Any families applying early decision/action? Happy to help.

What do you think of the recent story re: Jews being completely over represented at Ivey League schools?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Tis the season again. Any families applying early decision/action? Happy to help.

What do you think of the recent story re: Jews being completely over represented at Ivey League schools?

I was going to ask him this too but then I saw that he's the one that started the FFA thread about it. I meant to comment in there but I never got around to it.

 

[jhib]

My daughter has a limb difference (born without a left hand). Any advantage to that right off the bat, or only if she makes it one with a good essay?She's still in middle school, but it's something I've been wondering about lately.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Tis the season again. Any families applying early decision/action? Happy to help.

What do you think of the recent story re: Jews being completely over represented at Ivey League schools?

I was going to ask him this too but then I saw that he's the one that started the FFA thread about it. I meant to comment in there but I never got around to it.

It's almost like chet did it purposely.

 

[kutta]

What is considered a "minority?" My wife's dad is Colombian, which is classified as "Hispanic." My understanding is the federal government deems someone with 25% bloodline (i.e. one parent) to be that race. So technically, my blond-haired, blue-eyed kids are Hispanic. I think.Is this true, and will it help me to check the "Hispanic" box on the admission forms?