Cleveland Browns (3 Viewers)

[daveR]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)

At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

 

[rizzler]

What was our single biggest problem last year?

Losing.

 

[BallparkFrank]

Lots of chatter on a Browns message board that Jim Brown will be in NYC to make the Browns pick at #4...separate from all of the other legends that will make picks in the 2nd round. Smells like we could have a special made for tv moment with the great Jim Brown selecting Trent Richardson. Get your ready!

How typical Browns would it be to set up this perfect moment, though, only to have someone leapfrog them by trading with the Vikes?

 

[MAC_32]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur#2 Offensive play makers#3 PR#4 Special Teams#5 Tony Pashos, the rest of the line was fine, I think the line improved in November and was pretty decent come December#6 Sheldon Brown 'playing' corner#7 Run defense#8 RB health #9 4th quarter defense#10 Lack of depth up front on both sides of the ball

 

[daveR]

What was our single biggest problem last year?

Losing.

Thanks for playing! What caused that losing?

 

[daveR]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur#2 Offensive play makers#3 PR#4 Special Teams#5 Tony Pashos, the rest of the line was fine, I think the line improved in November and was pretty decent come December#6 Sheldon Brown 'playing' corner#7 Run defense#8 RB health #9 4th quarter defense#10 Lack of depth up front on both sides of the ball

1.) I agree that there were major mistakes made by Shurmur last season, but would you agree that most were correctable? What I mean by that, is the mistakes were rookie mistakes. I'm willing to give Shurmur a mulligan for last year. 2.) Agreed. That said, I like Greg Little a lot, and I'm hoping that Cameron can make a little noise this year.3.) I agree that Holmgren is not a great P.R. guy. 4.) Was a noticeable drop-off. We all know why. Dawson is still Dawson.5.) Bingo!!!! Pashos = Swiss Cheese.6.) I really like Buster Skrine and look for the kid to be a decent NFL CB, so hopefully Heckert can grab a good corner in the draft and the defense can lock up in the secondary this year. 7.) The LB corp could use some young talent and depth. I'm not sure why no one talks about this. DQ is fine, of course. Taylor and Sheard being a year old and stronger should help. Taylor should also be better conditioned this year. T.J. Ward staying healthy is key.8.) Pretty apparent IMO that RB will be addressed in the first 3 rounds. If not, Heckert could actually draft 35 RBs in rounds 6 and 7 and have a battle royale to make the roster.9.) Young guys and lack of depth due to taking the 2nd oldest roster in the league and turning it into the 2nd youngest roster in the league... should improve.10.) See #9..... Turning the roster over and removing Abe Lincoln and the gang was a good thing IMO... I think it pays dividends starting this year. Young guys generally improve.

 

[amnesiac]

My dream day:1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett4.Use the other 2nd for a RT5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years. 1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

 

[beer 30]

Lots of chatter on a Browns message board that Jim Brown will be in NYC to make the Browns pick at #4...separate from all of the other legends that will make picks in the 2nd round. Smells like we could have a special made for tv moment with the great Jim Brown selecting Trent Richardson. Get your ready!

How typical Browns would it be to set up this perfect moment, though, only to have someone leapfrog them by trading with the Vikes?

Yes, I can see it now. . .legendary Jim Brown saunters up to the podium as a hush falls over the crowd. Jim slowly eyes the crowd, nodding to various hall of famers scattered throughout the crowd and then a brief moment of silence as a hush falls over the crowd while arguably the greatest RB of all time make the choice for team that he invested so much in. . .in a booming, deep baritone "with the 4th pick in the 2012 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns select Dontario Poe, DT, Memphis. Wait, what? You ####### kidding me? I'm Jim mother####ing Brown damnit! Is this some kinda joke?You drug my ### all the way up to this hole, trussed me up in all this Browns bull#### and give me this? Where that mother####ing Holmgren at? I'm gonna whoop his sorry fat walrus looking ###!"As the crowd sits in stunned disbelief and NFL security escorts Mr. Brown to a waiting police van, Roger Goodell frantically tries to cut to commercial as the city of Cleveland turns in on itself and becomes a self destructive black hole from the devastating weight of millions of fans falling over dead on the spot thus setting free a generation of fans and fulfilling the curse of Moses Cleaveland for sodimizing Indians on the banks of the Cuyahoga river.

The screen simply fades to black as you hear Chris Berman mumble "didn't see that one coming, eh Tommy?"

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

You sure do paint a picture beer 30

 

[GreatLakesMike]

"I'm gonna git you sucka!"

 

[NJDawgPound]

My dream day:1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett4.Use the other 2nd for a RT5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years. 1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

Because Mallett's stock is higher now than it was then.

 

[Village Idiot]

Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.

I had heard his agent told the Browns not to bother, he doesn't want to come here.

I swear to God, this happens with all four of my favorite sports teams.

Browns. Raptors. Blue jays. Maple Leafs.wanna try and top that?

Browns, Nets, Astros, Islanders.ETA: Players line up to play for the Leafs so you're DQ'ed (except John Tavares ).

I'm an Isles fan too.

 

[MAC_32]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

 

[NJDawgPound]

Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.

I had heard his agent told the Browns not to bother, he doesn't want to come here.

I swear to God, this happens with all four of my favorite sports teams.

Browns. Raptors. Blue jays. Maple Leafs.wanna try and top that?

Browns, Nets, Astros, Islanders.ETA: Players line up to play for the Leafs so you're DQ'ed (except John Tavares ).

I'm an Isles fan too.

In case anyone cares, the reason for the diversity there:Browns: Have family in Central Ohio (Marion) that got me started early. Nets: From JerseyAstros: First game was at Shea Stadium where Nolan Ryan shut down Mets. Sat behind Astros dugout. Was 1980 or so and a fan ever since.Isles: Older sister got me involved in hockey during Miracle on Ice and our favorite player was Kenny Morrow and we followed him to the Isles where he won 4 cups in a row. Not much going for those teams since; had a shot in 2005 but Astros got swept in WS by the White Sox. If any of them are going to do it, let it be the Browns or the Isles. Just once before I die where I am old enough to enjoy it.

 

[NJDawgPound]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

To Dave's point, I kind of subscribe to the Mike & Mike theory of needing one outstanding aspect of a team. If we take Kalil, the O-Line becomes outstanding. If we take Claiborne, the secondary becomes outstanding. That said, if we do take Kalil and he turns into a bust it will set us as far back as it would have if we drafted a bust QB at 4.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

My dream day:1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett4.Use the other 2nd for a RT5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years. 1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

Because Mallett's stock is higher now than it was then.

Mallet doesn't fit the offense. WCO QBs are supposed to have a little mobility. Also if Mallet truly raised his stock in the eyes of the Browns FO with a few preseason games then they're as terrible as the guys in Seattle that fell in love with Charlie Whitehurst.

 

[rizzler]

To Dave's point, I kind of subscribe to the Mike & Mike theory of needing one outstanding aspect of a team. If we take Kalil, the O-Line becomes outstanding. If we take Claiborne, the secondary becomes outstanding. That said, if we do take Kalil and he turns into a bust it will set us as far back as it would have if we drafted a bust QB at 4.

and when we take Richardson, our running game becomes outstanding.

 

[Bobcat10]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)

At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

To Dave's point, I kind of subscribe to the Mike & Mike theory of needing one outstanding aspect of a team. If we take Kalil, the O-Line becomes outstanding.

If we take Claiborne, the secondary becomes outstanding.

That said, if we do take Kalil and he turns into a bust it will set us as far back as it would have if we drafted a bust QB at 4.

If anyone is going to subscribe to this theory, the safer pick is clearly Claiborne. More questions come with Kalil when looking at it from the Browns perspective. Mo also has an added special teams dimension along with his elite CB skills.

 

[NJDawgPound]

To Dave's point, I kind of subscribe to the Mike & Mike theory of needing one outstanding aspect of a team. If we take Kalil, the O-Line becomes outstanding. If we take Claiborne, the secondary becomes outstanding. That said, if we do take Kalil and he turns into a bust it will set us as far back as it would have if we drafted a bust QB at 4.

and when we take Richardson, our running game becomes outstanding.

Depends on what we do at RT. Also, Owen Marecic hasn't proven to be a Terrelle Smith or Vickers clearing the way either.

 

[NJDawgPound]

My dream day:1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett4.Use the other 2nd for a RT5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years. 1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

Because Mallett's stock is higher now than it was then.

Mallet doesn't fit the offense. WCO QBs are supposed to have a little mobility. Also if Mallet truly raised his stock in the eyes of the Browns FO with a few preseason games then they're as terrible as the guys in Seattle that fell in love with Charlie Whitehurst.

Fair enough.

 

[daveR]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)

At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

Okay. Point taken. We disagree as to the value and quality of the o-line. IMO, an offense cannot function without one and mediocre players can excel behind a good one. (see Timmy Smith) In the Browns' case, I am hopeful that the guards grow into so-so NFL starters, but they weren't there in 2011. I don't have that same hope for Cousins, et al, at RT. If we again try to patchwork the unit together, I have very little confidence that the offense will improve no matter who is drafted at RB or WR. I don't disagree that TRich is an excellent talent. He is! He would bring the overall talent level up a great deal, and I love that concept. On the other hand... (you know the drill). The Browns oline grades out like this A-D-B-D-F. I could live with A-C-B-C-B, but that's not gonna happen through wishful thinking.

Regarding Lerner, what more could you want from an owner than to put football guys in charge and get out of the way?

 

[daveR]

To Dave's point, I kind of subscribe to the Mike & Mike theory of needing one outstanding aspect of a team. If we take Kalil, the O-Line becomes outstanding. If we take Claiborne, the secondary becomes outstanding. That said, if we do take Kalil and he turns into a bust it will set us as far back as it would have if we drafted a bust QB at 4.

and when we take Richardson, our running game becomes outstanding.

...then he rubbed the pot roast all over his chest.

 

[MAC_32]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)

At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

Okay. Point taken. We disagree as to the value and quality of the o-line. IMO, an offense cannot function without one and mediocre players can excel behind a good one. (see Timmy Smith) In the Browns' case, I am hopeful that the guards grow into so-so NFL starters, but they weren't there in 2011. I don't have that same hope for Cousins, et al, at RT. If we again try to patchwork the unit together, I have very little confidence that the offense will improve no matter who is drafted at RB or WR. I don't disagree that TRich is an excellent talent. He is! He would bring the overall talent level up a great deal, and I love that concept. On the other hand... (you know the drill). The Browns oline grades out like this A-D-B-D-F. I could live with A-C-B-C-B, but that's not gonna happen through wishful thinking.

Regarding Lerner, what more could you want from an owner than to put football guys in charge and get out of the way?

You're lower on Pinkston and Lauvao than I am, I think both are capable starters and played much better in the 2nd half of last year as they got more acclimated. Greco and Cousins are just depth, we need to add two more guys that are better than Greco and Cousins - preferably one that can backup Mack and one that projects to a tackle position. I really don't think we need to do that at pick 4. Exterior guy at pick 22 (Zeitler), 37 (Massie or Glenn), or 67 (Schwartz or Allen) and interior guy in round 4 or 5 (Molk, Brewster, Blake, or Ben Jones?) should do it. Between Lauvao, Pinkston, and the guy taken at pick 22, 37, or 67 I think we can get one B and 2 C's from your grading scale. The day 3 guy should be C-ish too. If we can't get a capable unit doing this then shame on Heckert because these are all Heckert guys outside of the 2 anchors.Maybe best to save the Randy discussion for sometime in the dog days of summer, a lot of other stuff going on now. To tease, I think his perceived lack of care for the organization has a spill-over effect onto the operations.

 

[beer 30]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?

My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

 

[rizzler]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

I've been dreading this.But don't honestly see it going down unless someone is willing to take SJax. and with his contract #'s, that looks slim.anyone?

 

[daveR]

Thank you, Beer Dude! (Gimme dat shoe!)

At any rate, I sincerely believe the lack of good O-linemen ( and blocking backs ) was our biggest problem last year. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's take on that question. What was our single biggest problem last year?

I'll prioritize#1 Shurmur

No sense discussing draft stuff here. Your top gripe is based on your personal perception from afar.

You asked what our single biggest problem is, that's what I think it is. Besides Randy, but that's a completely different argument. You seem to think it's RT, which is clearly an issue, but since you side stepped my question earlier I'll ask again - how many championship caliber teams have o lines built around three 1st round picks? two in the top 5?A successful team needs a good o line, which I think we have. A successful team does not need an elite o line, it'd be nice, but it's not a necessity.

Okay. Point taken. We disagree as to the value and quality of the o-line. IMO, an offense cannot function without one and mediocre players can excel behind a good one. (see Timmy Smith) In the Browns' case, I am hopeful that the guards grow into so-so NFL starters, but they weren't there in 2011. I don't have that same hope for Cousins, et al, at RT. If we again try to patchwork the unit together, I have very little confidence that the offense will improve no matter who is drafted at RB or WR. I don't disagree that TRich is an excellent talent. He is! He would bring the overall talent level up a great deal, and I love that concept. On the other hand... (you know the drill). The Browns oline grades out like this A-D-B-D-F. I could live with A-C-B-C-B, but that's not gonna happen through wishful thinking.

Regarding Lerner, what more could you want from an owner than to put football guys in charge and get out of the way?

You're lower on Pinkston and Lauvao than I am, I think both are capable starters and played much better in the 2nd half of last year as they got more acclimated. Greco and Cousins are just depth, we need to add two more guys that are better than Greco and Cousins - preferably one that can backup Mack and one that projects to a tackle position. I really don't think we need to do that at pick 4. Exterior guy at pick 22 (Zeitler), 37 (Massie or Glenn), or 67 (Schwartz or Allen) and interior guy in round 4 or 5 (Molk, Brewster, Blake, or Ben Jones?) should do it. Between Lauvao, Pinkston, and the guy taken at pick 22, 37, or 67 I think we can get one B and 2 C's from your grading scale. The day 3 guy should be C-ish too. If we can't get a capable unit doing this then shame on Heckert because these are all Heckert guys outside of the 2 anchors.Maybe best to save the Randy discussion for sometime in the dog days of summer, a lot of other stuff going on now. To tease, I think his perceived lack of care for the organization has a spill-over effect onto the operations.

Shame on Heckert because he picked Lauvao in the third and Pinkston in the seventh (I think). Those picks can be thought to disprove the "you can draft quality OL late" theory. So, let's get some quality early rather than roll the dice!Your Lerner comment demonstrates the large difference between us. Right or wrong, you're a cynic, and I'm an optimist. I take what I see & try to improve it. I don't see egos and conspiracies, nor do I see any reason to spend mental energy on them. I see experienced, paid professionals doing what they can to build a winning team -- people who know way more about the business than I will ever sniff!

 

[nxmehta]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

This rumor just doesn't make any sense. The Rams could've traded down to 4 in the RG3 trade and gotten Richardson. They will have to pay enough to move up to 3 where they would have gotten *more* from just trading with the Browns. Their front office would have to be so totally inept for that to happen... unlikely. Plus, they'd have to move SJax and his $7m contract.It's not gonna happen. More pre-draft

 

[nxmehta]

Shame on Heckert because he picked Lauvao in the third and Pinkston in the seventh (I think). Those picks can be thought to disprove the "you can draft quality OL late" theory. So, let's get some quality early rather than roll the dice!

Your Lerner comment demonstrates the large difference between us. Right or wrong, you're a cynic, and I'm an optimist. I take what I see & try to improve it. I don't see egos and conspiracies, nor do I see any reason to spend mental energy on them. I see experienced, paid professionals doing what they can to build a winning team -- people who know way more about the business than I will ever sniff!

OL often make their biggest jump in year 2. Give Pinkston (5th rounder BTW) this year before you bury him. From game 1 to game 16 he improved dramatically. I think he can grade out as an average lineman. That's not wishful thinking, that's actually examining the improvement in his play.Lauvao can suck it IMO though. I'd love to see replacements at RG and RT.

 

[Bobcat10]

You're lower on Pinkston and Lauvao than I am, I think both are capable starters and played much better in the 2nd half of last year as they got more acclimated. Greco and Cousins are just depth, we need to add two more guys that are better than Greco and Cousins - preferably one that can backup Mack and one that projects to a tackle position. I really don't think we need to do that at pick 4. Exterior guy at pick 22 (Zeitler), 37 (Massie or Glenn), or 67 (Schwartz or Allen) and interior guy in round 4 or 5 (Molk, Brewster, Blake, or Ben Jones?) should do it. Between Lauvao, Pinkston, and the guy taken at pick 22, 37, or 67 I think we can get one B and 2 C's from your grading scale. The day 3 guy should be C-ish too. If we can't get a capable unit doing this then shame on Heckert because these are all Heckert guys outside of the 2 anchors.

Shame on Heckert because he picked Lauvao in the third and Pinkston in the seventh (I think). Those picks can be thought to disprove the "you can draft quality OL late" theory. So, let's get some quality early rather than roll the dice!

I think it's way to early to write off Lauvao and Pinkston, which you seem very comfortable doing. Let's just say our guard play improves this year, which is what the organization probably expects, don't you think that lessons the need to use #4 on a RT who's really a highly graded LT, a position in which we already have the best?Mac or anyone, I've heard rumblings of Pinkston at RT as a possibility. Did he play there at all last year? Is this a legitimate possibility?

 

[Bobcat10]

While there is not alot of info here, the BSK came out with his draft class for the Browns.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/04/24/prediction-the-cleveland-browns-full-2012-draft-class/#.T5bUA2HQ3ss.facebook

One thing it points out to me, is that we're likely not going to come out of this draft with 13 players...we're going to manuever around (up) much like we've done in the past under this regime. 13 just seems like so much, and while we need it, I think they'll move up a couple times to secure their target.

Also, I'm intriuged by the WRs in his draft class like Adams, Childs and K. Martin....and even guys like Toon, Fuller, and Posey. I'm thinking 3rd/4th round and later guys, not Criner, Randle, etc. Regardless if we go WR early, we have to pick up 1-3 other WRs later in this draft. Just doing that could save us a high pick to use elsewhere in the near future.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

Trade back a few and take Floyd at 8-10, Hill at 22 and D. Martin at 37

 

[Bobcat10]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

Trade back a few and take Floyd at 8-10, Hill at 22 and D. Martin at 37

Hill is a wasted pick, imo, if we get Floyd. Not to mention he scares the hell out of me. I'd rather stab at 2 WRs later in the draft to battle MoMass for playing time and use 22 for something more certain. I'd be feeling great with some combo of OL/RB/LB with 22, 37, and whatever 2nd we get to drop back in the 1st.

 

[MAC_32]

You're lower on Pinkston and Lauvao than I am, I think both are capable starters and played much better in the 2nd half of last year as they got more acclimated. Greco and Cousins are just depth, we need to add two more guys that are better than Greco and Cousins - preferably one that can backup Mack and one that projects to a tackle position. I really don't think we need to do that at pick 4. Exterior guy at pick 22 (Zeitler), 37 (Massie or Glenn), or 67 (Schwartz or Allen) and interior guy in round 4 or 5 (Molk, Brewster, Blake, or Ben Jones?) should do it. Between Lauvao, Pinkston, and the guy taken at pick 22, 37, or 67 I think we can get one B and 2 C's from your grading scale. The day 3 guy should be C-ish too. If we can't get a capable unit doing this then shame on Heckert because these are all Heckert guys outside of the 2 anchors.

Shame on Heckert because he picked Lauvao in the third and Pinkston in the seventh (I think). Those picks can be thought to disprove the "you can draft quality OL late" theory. So, let's get some quality early rather than roll the dice!

I think it's way to early to write off Lauvao and Pinkston, which you seem very comfortable doing. Let's just say our guard play improves this year, which is what the organization probably expects, don't you think that lessons the need to use #4 on a RT who's really a highly graded LT, a position in which we already have the best?Mac or anyone, I've heard rumblings of Pinkston at RT as a possibility. Did he play there at all last year? Is this a legitimate possibility?

We'll find out this weekend, but my gut feeling is we draft a guy that is projected to play RT and compete with Pinkston for that spot. If our rookie isn't ready then we slide Pinkston in there and Lauvao gets a guard position, if he is ready then Pinkston goes inside to LG and Lauvao probably slides over to RG. Then misc rookie (again, my guess is it's an interior guy), Cousins, and Greco make up our bench.

 

[eric rymer]

I'm tired of speculating...I just want it to be Thursday already.

 

[daveR]

I'm tired of speculating...I just want it to be Thursday already.

GAWD, YES!

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

Trade back a few and take Floyd at 8-10, Hill at 22 and D. Martin at 37

Hill is a wasted pick, imo, if we get Floyd. Not to mention he scares the hell out of me. I'd rather stab at 2 WRs later in the draft to battle MoMass for playing time and use 22 for something more certain. I'd be feeling great with some combo of OL/RB/LB with 22, 37, and whatever 2nd we get to drop back in the 1st.

I've expressed my opinion on Hill elsewhere, but I watched almost all of his games at Tech and if I had been asked in January where I thought he would be drafted I would have said the 4th round. By contrast I had no doubt two years ago that D.Thomas was a 1st round talent. Hill is a great athlete, but I don't think he's anywhere near the receiver that Thomas was coming out.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

You're lower on Pinkston and Lauvao than I am, I think both are capable starters and played much better in the 2nd half of last year as they got more acclimated. Greco and Cousins are just depth, we need to add two more guys that are better than Greco and Cousins - preferably one that can backup Mack and one that projects to a tackle position. I really don't think we need to do that at pick 4. Exterior guy at pick 22 (Zeitler), 37 (Massie or Glenn), or 67 (Schwartz or Allen) and interior guy in round 4 or 5 (Molk, Brewster, Blake, or Ben Jones?) should do it. Between Lauvao, Pinkston, and the guy taken at pick 22, 37, or 67 I think we can get one B and 2 C's from your grading scale. The day 3 guy should be C-ish too. If we can't get a capable unit doing this then shame on Heckert because these are all Heckert guys outside of the 2 anchors.

Shame on Heckert because he picked Lauvao in the third and Pinkston in the seventh (I think). Those picks can be thought to disprove the "you can draft quality OL late" theory. So, let's get some quality early rather than roll the dice!

I think it's way to early to write off Lauvao and Pinkston, which you seem very comfortable doing. Let's just say our guard play improves this year, which is what the organization probably expects, don't you think that lessons the need to use #4 on a RT who's really a highly graded LT, a position in which we already have the best?Mac or anyone, I've heard rumblings of Pinkston at RT as a possibility. Did he play there at all last year? Is this a legitimate possibility?

It is way too early to write off Lauvao and Pinkston. I like Pinkston and as other posters have already stated, he steadily improved throughout the season. Lauvao seems to be banged up a lot. It would be nice to see him healthy for 16 games. Drafting a LT at 4 to play RT is just plain dumb.The two 4th round picks could be used on the O-line if needed, or packaged together to move up and grab a RT if they don't grab one with their first 4 picks. I'm sure there will still be quality guards/tackles left in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Rumors going round the Rams are willing to jump the browns and trade up into Minnesota's position to grab Richardson. They asked this on the radio this morning and Grossi answered it well, what ya'll think the Browns will do if that happens?My guess they try frantically to trade down and if there are no takers pick Claiborne.

Trade back a few and take Floyd at 8-10, Hill at 22 and D. Martin at 37

Hill is a wasted pick, imo, if we get Floyd. Not to mention he scares the hell out of me. I'd rather stab at 2 WRs later in the draft to battle MoMass for playing time and use 22 for something more certain. I'd be feeling great with some combo of OL/RB/LB with 22, 37, and whatever 2nd we get to drop back in the 1st.

Food for thought......According to the "experts", Blackmon and Floyd are not in the "elite" category, so maybe grabbing an elite WR simply isn't in the cards this year. No need to grab one of those guys if there are better players at other positions of need out there. At this point, we have to think that Little improves and any decent WR at all opposite of him would be a vast upgrade. Find the right value and hit a double instead of swinging for the fences. Personally, I'd like to see them add a deep threat at the very least, and I do agree with the above poster that it would be nice to add a few NFL WRs to the roster. Cuts are coming, so maybe that's a temporary solution for one spot.

 

[Fensalk]

Remember, the philosophy of this front office is that you draft CBs and OL high in the draft, while WRs can be found late. Sure they might break from that philosophy, but do you really think they will do so to reach for some non-elite WR in the first round?

 

[Fensalk]

FINAL Fensalk Browns Mock:

1.04 RB Trent Richardson

1.22 OT Johnathan Martin

2.04 CB Jayron Hosley - a team that makes CB a priority has to love this guy, so just a hunch here.

3.04 WR Brian Quick

4.04 DE prospect

 

[wadegarrett]

Remember, the philosophy of this front office is that you draft CBs and OL high in the draft, while WRs can be found late. Sure they might break from that philosophy, but do you really think they will do so to reach for some non-elite WR in the first round?

Agree. Grossi's article today...

How the Browns would make draft history by selecting cornerback Morris Claiborne fourth overall

Apr 25, 2012

ESPNCleveland.com

By Tony Grossi

Cornering the market: The Browns could be on the verge of becoming one of the most cornerback-centric teams in NFL draft history.

In 2010, the Browns used the No. 7 overall pick of the draft on cornerback Joe Haden of Florida. Two years later, they may use the No. 4 overall pick of the draft on cornerback Morris Claiborne of Louisiana State.

Two cornerbacks taken in the top 10 in the span of three years would be unusual, to say the least.

I have scoured the rolls of drafthistory.com and discovered only two situations similar to this.

In 1961, the San Francisco 49ers drafted UCLA cornerback Jimmy Johnson No. 6 overall. Two years later, the 49ers drafted UCLA cornerback Kermit Alexander No. 8 overall. Alexander played some safety in his career, but there were a few years the two players started together at cornerback.

In 1998, the Baltimore Ravens drafted Miami cornerback Duane Starks No.10 overall. The Ravens followed the very next year by drafting Arizona cornerback Chris McAlister also No.10 overall. In 2000, Starks and McAlister were the starting cornerbacks on the Ravens’ Super Bowl championship team that allowed 165 points – still the NFL record for least points over 16 games.

Rise of the waterbugs: When I first started covering the NFL, a quarterback confided to me his disdain for the position of cornerback in general. He referred to them as “those waterbugs.”

This quarterback felt the biggest mismatch obtainable in a game was to force defenses to put its third and fourth cornerbacks on the field – usually at the expense of starting linebackers. Back then, teams were lucky to have two good cornerbacks on a roster. The others were glorified “gunners” on special teams who were pressed into key defensive roles when offenses made the then-radical move of fielding three or four receivers on a given play.

“Quarterbacks love that,” the quarterback told me, “because we can usually find the weakest one out there and beat him.”

In his mind, the matchup was not the third cornerback v. the third receiver. It was the third cornerback v. the starting quarterback. Total mismatch.

The game has changed, of course. Repeated rules changes and bigger and faster receivers have led to more passing than the league has ever seen. As a result, cornerbacks have risen in prominence. Teams have made finding reputable cornerbacks a priority in the draft and free agency.

“Those waterbugs” nowadays are the third highest-paid position in the sport. The franchise tag – the average salary of the top five-paid players at the position – is $10.281 million for cornerback in 2012. The only positions higher were quarterback at $14.436 million and defensive end at $10.605 million.

Former NFL coaching great Bill Parcells said on an ESPN on Tuesday night that if he were actively coaching, he would field three cornerbacks and only one safety in his base defense to keep up with the three-receiver sets so prevalent today.

“More so than ever before, you give these quarterbacks today zones (coverage schemes) and they will pick you apart, just shred you,” Parcells said. “And there’s nothing you can do about it. You have to be able to (cover) man-to-man on first down.”

What will the Browns do?: On March 15, the Browns re-signed cornerback Dimitri Patterson rather than watch him leave in free agency. Patterson was the team’s third cornerback in 2011. The Browns gave him a three-year contract for $16.05 million, including $6 million guaranteed.

Patterson’s base salary for 2012 is $2.95 million. Incumbent starter Sheldon Brown’s is $3.7 million. Haden’s is $5.76 million. That’s a lot of money invested in cornerbacks.

But now I’m beginning to think they may invest even more in the position by taking Claiborne with their first pick. Claiborne is the likely choice for the Browns if a team jumps ahead of them and takes running back Trent Richardson with the No. 3 overall pick.

Haden, the seventh overall selection in 2010, andClaiborne, fourth overall in 2012, would become the highest-drafted cornerback teammates in NFL draft history.

 

[beer 30]

Remember, the philosophy of this front office is that you draft CBs and OL high in the draft, while WRs can be found late. Sure they might break from that philosophy, but do you really think they will do so to reach for some non-elite WR in the first round?

Agree. Grossi's article today...How the Browns would make draft history by selecting cornerback Morris Claiborne fourth overall

Apr 25, 2012

ESPNCleveland.com

By Tony Grossi

Agree with the above assuming Richardson gets vultured by someone trading up to Minnesota's spot. I have a feeling Holmgren has told Heckart to take Richardson if he is there, if not go with Heckart's pick in Claiborne. That will set the direction for the rest of the draft. I'd be shocked if they pick a WR at #4 but with Heckart basically telling us last week they are targeting two players at the 4 spot I firmly believe it's Richardson or Claiborne unless someone makes a ridiculous offer.Side note, Seneca Wallace on the Big Show at noon today. Should be interesting since Rizzo has basically said he wouldn't piss on Wallace if he was standing next to him on fire

 

[wadegarrett]

Remember, the philosophy of this front office is that you draft CBs and OL high in the draft, while WRs can be found late. Sure they might break from that philosophy, but do you really think they will do so to reach for some non-elite WR in the first round?

Agree. Grossi's article today...How the Browns would make draft history by selecting cornerback Morris Claiborne fourth overall

Apr 25, 2012

ESPNCleveland.com

By Tony Grossi

Agree with the above assuming Richardson gets vultured by someone trading up to Minnesota's spot. I have a feeling Holmgren has told Heckart to take Richardson if he is there, if not go with Heckart's pick in Claiborne. That will set the direction for the rest of the draft. I'd be shocked if they pick a WR at #4 but with Heckart basically telling us last week they are targeting two players at the 4 spot I firmly believe it's Richardson or Claiborne unless someone makes a ridiculous offer.

As do I.

 

[rizzler]

Gentlemen...

We may be a little more than 24hrs away from having Adrian Peterson 2.0, or one of, if not the MOST elite secondary in the NFL.

Can't wait for this work day to end, and get into pure draft mode

BROWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[amnesiac]

My dream day:

1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace

2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson

3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett

4.Use the other 2nd for a RT

5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years.

1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.

2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.

3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.

4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.

Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

Because Mallett's stock is higher now than it was then.

Mallet doesn't fit the offense. WCO QBs are supposed to have a little mobility. Also if Mallet truly raised his stock in the eyes of the Browns FO with a few preseason games then they're as terrible as the guys in Seattle that fell in love with Charlie Whitehurst.

exactly.

 

[cstu]

My dream day:

1.Trade the 4 to Pukesburg for Wallace

2.Trade the 22 and a 3rd and next years first to TB for the 5 and grab Richardson

3.Trade one of our 2nd's to NE for Mallett

4.Use the other 2nd for a RT

5.Profit?

:mindf###:It would be talked about for years.

1) I wish we could have signed Wallace for the #22, but the rules didn't allow it. The thing is they could have already signed Wallace and gave up the #4 all along and didn't.

2) Sure, why not. Richardson and Wallace give this team instant weapons.

3) We only have one #2, the 37th pick. We'd have to use that for Mallett. I would.

4) We'll have the 4th pick of the 3rd round to grab our RT. Probably Mitchell Schwartz, the kid from Illinois, or maybe even Bobbie Massie if he slips. Here's where I wish they would have opened the pocketbook and signed Eric Winston.

Heckert is creative, but this is blockbuster. Ballsy. I love it. We need playmakers and moxie, especially on offense, and this give us both.

Why would they trade the #37 pick for last year's #74 pick?

Because Mallett's stock is higher now than it was then.

Mallet doesn't fit the offense. WCO QBs are supposed to have a little mobility. Also if Mallet truly raised his stock in the eyes of the Browns FO with a few preseason games then they're as terrible as the guys in Seattle that fell in love with Charlie Whitehurst.

exactly.

The Whitehurst trade was way overblown. He was a 3rd round pick by the Chargers and the Chargers got a 3rd and swapped 2nd's (40 for 60) for him. The Seahawks got Golden Tate with that 2nd and the 3rd ended up being Chris Culliver for the 49ers.

 

[MAC_32]

The Whitehurst trade was way overblown. He was a 3rd round pick by the Chargers and the Chargers got a 3rd and swapped 2nd's (40 for 60) for him. The Seahawks got Golden Tate with that 2nd and the 3rd ended up being Chris Culliver for the 49ers.

...and the Seahawks solution was to let Whitehurst and Tarvaris duke it out for QB.Yes, the raw payment was only an upgrade in the 2nd round, but they dragged their feet in the sand for 2 years thinking one of these guys would emerge instead of finding a legit QB.

 

[Multiple Scores]

4. Trent

22. Wright

37. Weeden

Do this and the offense is improved tenfold.

I'm not sure on Weeden though, had Colt McCoy really been given a chance? I have my doubts. Trent, Wright and a RT at 37 and give Colt a chance perhaps. Also I could see Hill if not Wright.

Dream scenario would be if Floyd starts sliding into the teens if there was a way to move 22 but keep 37.

 

[daveR]

FANS IN THE WAR ROOM

Do you think it's better for a team to bring a fan's mentality into the war room, or to take emotion completely out of the equation?